Suggestion: Collate ALL historic comments from the Triggertrap Comments screen


Burnt backers of the Triggertrap Ada Kickstarter campaign Forums Kickstarter fail (public) Suggestion: Collate ALL historic comments from the Triggertrap Comments screen

This topic contains 3 replies, has 2 voices, and was last updated by  Delewin 3 years, 4 months ago.

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  • #95

    Delewin
    Participant

    Copy and paste ALL historic comments here from the Triggertrap Comments screen as these may come in handy when we are building our case against Triggertrap.

    #96

    Delewin
    Participant
    Spoiler for Updates
    Frode Roxrud Gill about 6 hours ago
    Good to see the source code! I am kind of surprised at how little it has evolved since the code review in October 2014. Also, your README.md https://github.com/TriggerTrap/ada/blob/master/README.md seems to be based on the version we reviewed in October (the IPAddress , Udp and other unused networking files are now removed, but listed in the README.md).
    The work done for power saving – is that the added timing.h and timing.c, or something else?

    Leslie L Eaton about 6 hours ago
    @Dan FWIW, As I have researched the failure and Haje Jan Kamps’ prolific responses to it, I am realizing that he had no intentions of having it succeed. Rather, he wanted to ride the Fat Money Cow of Kickstarter as long as he could. As one reads his prolific posts, bits and pieces of information creep out that shows that he knew the project was doomed very early on! He now makes claims that within days of being funded they were allegedly sued to change the name of the product from RedSnap to ADA and used their entire legal budget! The fact that they burned through their legal budget in days is another piece of data that was never disclosed to the backers. https://medium.com/@Haje/how-a-half-million-dollar-kickstarter-project-can-crash-and-burn-5482d7d33ee1 With the sheer number of issues Haje had started to disclosed in articles across the web has me convinced that he saw £ signs and the sound of a cash register ringing in his ears. He is finally getting use out of his degree in Journalism by posting what he thinks are well-crafted “mea culpa” excuses now that he’s been caught. Since he is only releasing useless pieces of source code and has failed to release the schematics, I suspect he is posturing to release the unit for sale after the furor dies down, claiming of course, that he and his so-called tireless crew “continued to work on the project” and magically made it successful. BTW – According to my bank, I could have retracted my funds up to 9 months after they were collected so, yes, knowing that Matt Kane had left WOULD have made a difference for me! Sadly, to add insult to injury, over 1000 backers never got their websites added to the TriggerTrap web page, as promised. Personally, I don’t care if Haje Jan Kamps has to spend the rest of his life in London with cap in hand, begging to get the money to repay each and every backer. Perhaps the humility will help him a bit.

    VHF about 8 hours ago
    Like many below, I am pressured into accepting a 20% refund. What are the alternatives? If we don’t reply to the email, a 50% store credit will be automatically given to me instead, which is useless to me. However, I too have requested acknowledgement from TT that I expect a full refund due to the misinformation in the initial project pitch and the misinformation in the updates, and failure to comply with the ToS in force at the time.
    Haven’t received that though.

    Stephen Cottle about 9 hours ago
    I was wondering what their response was to those PMs for refunds back in the day!!

    Dan Upton about 9 hours ago
    @Leslie FWIW, even if you had known that the CTO was leaving, you couldn’t have retracted your funding. A handful of people had been asking for refunds ever since the initial ship date came and went, with TT responding that they couldn’t offer refunds once the money had been transferred. (The most recent one I see for instance is on December 12th, 2014…also in the comments for update #16.)

    Leslie L Eaton about 10 hours ago
    As someone who has developed and produced several successful complex, sensor-triggered circuit kits, I expect, at minimum, that ALL the schematics be released IMMEDIATELY. From those, I can review the circuit and create my own Gerber files, then produce the boards and kits myself. It is substantially less expensive to produce a kit vs. built-up production line unit. There are numerous PBC manufacturers with whom I have successfully produced high-quality boards for my kits. Taking the time to write the proper step by step assembly directions is key to making it simple for even inexperienced individuals to successfully produce. The failure of this project has cost me much more than just the funds invested. I would have pulled my funding back in May of 2014 if the TriggerTrap team had been forthcoming and properly announced the departure of Matt Kane, their Chief Technology Officer. A CTO will often depart when they realize that a majour project is going to be an epic failure to avoid their name being associated with the failure. Since this important information was never released in their Backer Updates that I can find, this likely will constitute the lack of good faith on the part of the TriggerTrap team. Certainly, without a CTO, the project is headed for failure. This lack of good faith in notifying backers may be an important piece of information to pass to KickStarter and keep for future use.

    Stephen Cottle about 12 hours ago
    I have taken the 20% refund however have stated it was under duress of them pressuring us for an answer and that im not interested in the 50% (that they will give us on defualt) on the grounds i m not giving them any more of my money. Im also stated that i still retain the rights for a full refund..

    Stephen Cottle about 12 hours ago
    So now we have to wait till may!!! gets better – hope you’ll be giving us the interest your getting in the next couple months too!!!

    Creator Triggertrap about 12 hours ago
    REFUNDS UPDATE
    This morning, we processed another batch of shop credits and refunds. For the latest status, please see https://triggertrap.reamaze.com/articles/refund-status, but the headline is that we’ve now processed the vast majority of shop credits that were requested, and about a third of all refunds that were requested.
    As we promised, we are processing the refund claims in the order they come in. We aim to process all shop credit within 10 days, and all refunds by the end of May.
    Thank you for your patience,
    Team Triggertrap

    Andy about 13 hours ago
    As a side note – I too wish to express my fond farewell to Kickstarter. This project will be the final project I interact with. I as others have come to realize that we as backers have no rights or honest insight into the development process or the road to production. Until Kickstarter either enforces their contracts “with teeth” in their terms of service some real penalty for failure to deliver, or enforces some form of escrow as the project progresses, or forces creators to be more open and transparent about their spending – lets be honest, its just free pools of money for any creator who can come up with a clever enough pitch.
    Triggertrap Ada was a project that seemed to have the backing of “veteran creators” with a well defined scope and product vision. With Triggertrap having successfully run a Kickstarter before, I was reasonably satisfied that they could deliver a final product. Every post they made failed to set of warning alarms for me because it seemed that indeed they had (as with every other project I had ever worked on) run into delays and scope modifications.
    However, without the transparency in expenditures, NO ONE could audit their success/failure or even question the status of the project…. How can Kickstarter allow creators to ignore even basic accounting?
    As such, I will be terminating usage of my Kickstarter account until such time that more transparent accounting of creator activities can be achieved, or Kickstarter provides more realistic protection to the backers. (A community I truly believe who wish to assist creative companies, individuals, creators with a viable crowdfunding solution). I can simply wait until the physical product is actually delivered through traditional means – which will usually involve an investor who will carefully audit the developer. I may not get the “uber cool limited Kickstarter edition”, but I also will avoid getting no product at all.
    To be clear – I have no issue with Kickstarter campaigns where the creator simply is asking for money (to support a club, product idea, etc) where there is NO product delivered when it is clearly stated in the project to begin with. However, when the entire goal of a project to deliver a physical product to backers – the end result ABSOLUTELY and SIMPLY CANNOT BE VAPOR.

    Tan Meng Keat about 13 hours ago
    @triggertrap @haje
    I demand a full refund of the amount I back for the project as per stated in the TOS at the time of backing.
    All your release soucre code and layout useless to me which has no idea what is there.
    All backers please check-in here for discussion how to get our money back.
    http://www.reddit.com/r/backertrap/

    Andreas about 14 hours ago
    @tiggertrap do you have any comments on the status of the source code? how close to a finished product will we get if we follow all the instructions you give us (software&hardware)? you wrote that you have a functional prototype, but as a software developer myself I know pretty well how far a prototype can be. the main reason for this question is: we can either get a whole bunch of rubbish when trying to get this to run, because a prototype is what it is: a prototype and normally not suitable for mass production or handing over to other developers (very dirty hacks, uncommented sourcecode, code that only works under special settings, etc.) or can we expect to get a product that you would feel comfortable in sending it to customers? as you’re not willing or not capable of doing so, I’m afraid the prototype is still a far stretch to a working product and the release of the sourcecode won’t help us a lot (not to mention, that it’s not so easy to work an another devs source code).
    one last question: i see you only published 10 commits of the source code. commit messages are an essential part of every open source project (e.g. to understand the reason behind code changes). could you please provide the whole source control files, including commit messages? I’m happy to add them myself if you provide a git, svn, mercurial repository. this would give as a fair chance to further work on the code and would only be conclusive with your effort to give us backers what we have paid for.

    Andy about 14 hours ago
    My selected refund is a reflection of my desire for a full refund under the original Kickstarter ToS in effect at the time of backing: https://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use/oct2012: “Project Creators are required to fulfill all rewards of their successful fundraising campaigns or refund any Backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill.” As such, I understand that Kickstarter will successfully allow you to get away with NOT honoring the original ToS (however you interpret them). My selection of a 20% refund in no way absolves or exonerates Triggertrap from any wrongdoing or obligation, but is simply my way of recouping whatever meager recompense available and avoid Triggertrap’s “autoselection” option of store credit I will never use.
    Thusfar all we have are promises that the designs and intellectual property (both in hardware, software, code, firmware, knowledge, etc) we have paid for will be released to the public – but even that has yet to occur. I would have been less adamant about a full refund if the project had at least SOME deliverable other than promises. As such I as others believe that a full refund is due until such time as some form of IP transfer to the rightful owners takes place.
    Lastly, may I just say that I find it VERY insulting to be badgered by your email spam to close out my refund choice. You took 18 months to get to this point, and you have the gall to insist that your backers “snap to it” and get with YOUR timeline? Have a smidgen of humility – none of which has come through in any of your communications, just hubris.

    Creator Triggertrap about 14 hours ago
    FULL REFUNDS
    The most commonly asked question here in the Kickstarter comments is why we are not offering full refunds, but instead are refunding only the remaining funds.
    We’ve addressed this topic in our FAQ, here: http://tri.gg/faq-fullrefund
    Thank you,
    Team Triggertrap

    Creator Triggertrap about 14 hours ago
    OPEN SOURCE
    As promised, we’ve now released the Ada source code as open source – see http://tri.gg/adasource . The hardware, schematics, and plastics are to follow as soon as possible.
    Thank you,
    Team Triggertrap

    Simon Ho about 15 hours ago
    I stopped the backing other kickstarter projects because of my experience with Triggertrap Ada.
    The first is USD 359 Panoptes eBumper4. I left a note why I was not backing them:
    I will not backing this project any more, as a protest against your fellow Kickstarter creator Triggertrap Ada who claim they have used 80% of the £290,386 for making a prototype and now they don’t have the money to start produce the promised product to the backers and they only want to pay back 20% of my £190 I backed the project with.

    Andreas about 16 hours ago
    as long as most people read “Project Creators are required to fulfill all rewards of their successful fundraising campaigns or refund any Backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill.” the same way as even kickstarter themselfs claims (“Is a creator legally obligated to fulfill the promises of their project? Yes. Kickstarter’s Terms of Use require creators to fulfill all rewards of their project or refund any backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill. ****We crafted these terms to create a legal requirement for creators to follow through on their projects, and to give backers a recourse if they don’t.**** We hope that backers will consider using this provision only in cases where they feel that a creator has not made a good faith effort to complete the project and fulfill.”) I think we can be very optimistic when pressing legal charges.
    I got the impression that triggertrap was informed by kickstarter that they don’t need to refund 100% simply because they referred to the wrong (new) ToS. Triggertrap did not check it themselfs (or made the same mistake) and are now hoping that they can get through with that. Otherwise I cannot imagine how on earth you would think that a 20% refund is OK under these ToS/kickstarter clearifications… the mistake with the wrong ToS is the only explanation I can come up with for the very far stretched interpretation triggertrap came up with (and the fact that they even linked to and argumented upon the wrong ToS in their first responses hardens this suspicion).

    Kirpa Singh Gulati about 16 hours ago
    @Gary – I’d love to pursue legal action. Please advise if there is anything I can do to contribute. Even if we lose and they spend as much money in court as they received through pledges in KS would be a satisfactory result for me just knowing that they gained nothing out of the whole exercise. The only real winner would be their lawyer, but well, that can’t be helped.
    I would have honestly felt that as a running business, they could have looked at options where they refunded the money OVER a period of time by proportioning a part of their running profits to refund backers.

    Creator Triggertrap about 17 hours ago
    SHOP CREDIT
    There’s been a few people who’ve had some problems spending their shop credit refund. The most common reason for that is if you try to enter the gift card into the discount code field.
    Full details are in this FAQ: http://tri.gg/faq-shopcredit
    Thank you,
    Team Triggertrap

    Creator Triggertrap about 18 hours ago
    OTHER HIGH SPEED TRIGGERS
    We’re really disappointed that Triggertrap Ada won’t be shipping, but we realise that you may still want to do high-speed photography. We’ve collected some alternatives here: http://tri.gg/ada-alternatives
    Thank you,
    Team Triggertrap

    Creator Triggertrap about 18 hours ago
    Dear backers,
    Thank you for your comments.
    We believe we have comprehensively answered all your questions in our FAQ, which you can find here: http://tri.gg/adafaq, and in the comment section of our Kickstarter campaign, located here: http://tri.gg/adacomments. For additional information, please Kickstarter’s own FAQ: http://tri.gg/ks-faq
    If you would like to claim your refund, please refer to the details in the e-mail we sent to our backers at the beginning of this month. We will send out another reminder of this today.
    If you haven’t received your e-mail, please contact us at hello@triggertrap.com, and we can get your refund processed as soon as possible.
    Thank you,
    Team Triggertrap

    Dan McColl 1 day ago
    Look up Backertrap on Reddit, that is where these discussions are being held now.

    Stephen Cottle 1 day ago
    @sofa-lofa there is one but we cant post link here else we get blocked. but google “backertrap” and you will find a few links to it :)

    Sofa-Lofa 2 days ago
    ‘Use this space to cheer the creator along’ – I think it’s a bit late for that, any news on legal action in the UK yet? Does anyone know if it is even an actionable recourse? Is there a webpage where we can discuss this in a more private way between ourselves?

    Rene S Jensen 2 days ago
    Just canceled backing Artiphon INSTRUMENT 1 with $349 in protest against Triggertrap and Kickstarter and I hope as many as possible of the 2000 backers here is doing the same to show kickstarter that we are not satisfied with the way Kickstarter is handling this. Cancel your pledge and let them know it’s because of Triggertrap. If you cancel your pledge Kickstarter lose money just like we do and then they will do something about it.

    Rene S Jensen 2 days ago
    I stoped my backing of Zen Mount ORIGIN: Multi-Purpose Mount for iPads,Tablet,Cameras,GoPro
    Here is a note for the project creators, why I canceled my pledge:
    I will not backing this project any more, as a protest against your fellow Kickstarter creator Triggertrap Ada who claim they have used 80% of the £290,386 for making a prototype and now they don’t have the money to start produce the promised product to the backers and they only want to pay back 20% of my £190 I backed the project with.
    Triggertrap ADA continued to mislead the backers by saying everything was on track and positive. They even gave the backers, the final shipping date.
    “Triggertrap Ada’s final shipping date. That’s right, folks – it’s a fact: Triggertrap Ada will be shipping in May 2015.”
    The loss is to big for me as a private person and as Kickstarter do not want to follow there own rules and take action against the project creators, then I am forced to take back my pledge from other Kickstarter creators who want to make a serous project like yours. I backed 135 projects, but I believe this is the end. I can however look at the kickstarter projects and wait to see if they will be produced and then buy them for full retail price if they get a good review, then I do not lose any money.
    I’m sorry if you do not reach your goal the last 3 days of the project because I’m not backing your project, please don’t blame me, blame Triggertrap Ada and Kickstarter.

    Rene S Jensen 2 days ago
    I stopped the backing other kickstarter projects because of my experience with Triggertrap Ada.
    The first is Chord2Go. I left a note why I was not backing tem:
    I will not backing this project any more, as a protest against your fellow Kickstarter creator Triggertrap Ada who claim they have used 80% of the £290,386 for making a prototype and now they don’t have the money to start produce the promised product to the backers and they only want to pay back 20% of my £190 I backed the project with.
    Triggertrap ADA continued to mislead the backers by saying everything was on track and positive. They even gave the backers, the final shipping date.
    “Triggertrap Ada’s final shipping date. That’s right, folks – it’s a fact: Triggertrap Ada will be shipping in May 2015.”
    The loss is to big for me as a private person and as Kickstarter do not want to follow there own rules and take action against the project creators, then I am forced to take back my pledge from other Kickstarter creators who want to make a serous project like yours. I backed 135 projects, but I believe this is the end. I can however look at the kickstarter projects and wait to see if they will be produced and then buy them for full retail price if they get a good review, then I do not lose any money.
    I’m sorry if you do not reach your goal the last 3 days of the project because I’m not backing your project, please don’t blame me, blame Triggertrap Ada and Kickstarter.

    John Rees 2 days ago
    John, definitely not a £100 company.
    Just look at their shareholding, issued £100, presumably fully paid and then look at the value of the shares when a shareholder resigned in 2014.
    And you expect those assets to be still owned by the company or its director? Without ADA those bits of wire in their shop are worth £0 The plans for ADA will be outside jurisdiction and Haje will not even own a house by now (anyway the bank will have first charge over that).
    It’s not worth the candle.

    Gary Shuster 2 days ago
    John, definitely not a £100 company. Remember, IP like copyright to source and object code for mobile apps are also assets. I’ve done asset research, but it is too close to litigation to elaborate in this forum.
    I do note that I was not able to find any record of Triggertrap registering with the California Secretary of State as a foreign corporation doing business here. Given that they say that they have a warehouse in California (http://triggertrap.com/where-to-buy), well,draw your own conclusions about whether a company shipping items from a California warehouse to California consumers can legally do that without registering — http://www.sos.ca.gov/business-programs/business-entities/faqs/#form-question7 I also wonder if they properly remitted sales tax, but that’s another question.

    John Rees 2 days ago
    Always worth suing a £100 company with few assets when the cost of a single solicitor’s letter will probably be greater than the amount claimed by any individual. I bet the gentleman you call Haje or Haji will own nothing now, he’s had enough warning to arrange his own affairs. By now he will be but a man of straw.

    Gary Shuster 2 days ago
    Gerry — please save that screenshot. We can subpoena the records from Facebook, but it is helpful to have the screenshot.
    Tim — Triggertrap definitely has assets sufficient to repay more than the 20% they are offering. If fraud by Haje can be proven (civilly, so under a more likely than not standard), his assets would be in play to satisfy a judgment. Assuming this gets certified as a class action, putative class members should get a notice telling them how to opt out of the class. For many people, £190 is too much money to consider not worth pursuing. For those people, recovering the financial losses arising from a breach of contract is neither vindictive nor revenge. Personally, I too have no desire to get revenge; instead, I just want to be made whole, and, while leaving the determination of whether a crime has taken place to law enforcement, I want to see any applicable criminal laws enforced so that future project creators are properly incentivized to abide by the law. Revenge is a poor reason to bring a case; restitution is a fine reason. I’m interested in the latter. I don’t think the trademark has much (or any) value as the failure of the project bearing the “Ada” name makes the “Ada” mark essentially worthless. The “Triggertrap” mark may have some value (diluted through it may be as a result of the Ada failure). The “Vela” mark is still technically owned by Triggertrap, and that mark may also have value (but see the earlier exchange with the owner of Vela who questions Triggertrap’s ownership of that mark).
    A strange but interesting outcome is actually possible here: If a judgment for fraud is entered against Haji personally and a judgment for breach of contract is entered against Triggertrap, in theory Haji’s stock in Triggertrap may be taken to satisfy the judgment, which would mean that the plaintiffs would either own or be in a position to sell substantial amounts of stock in Triggertrap, another judgment debtor.
    I’ve just wanted Triggertrap to do the right thing, so I definitely understand Tim’s preference. If this was a $30 thing and if Triggertrap was essentially broke, I would feel the same as Tim does. However, with a very solvent corporate defendant, and with at least one individual defendant with assets, and with losses around $300, this is just too big financial a hit for me to ignore.

    Minning Xiang 3 days ago
    Got a letter from my bank about the chargeback claim. It reads they have review the case and informed the company (Kickstarter), now they are waiting for respond. It also says this procedure normally takes 6 to 8 weeks.

    Tim Mackey 3 days ago
    I think Matt Kane’s suggestions are really interesting, including handing over the trademark to all the high level backers. Does TriggerTrap have any comments on it? Many of us would still like to get our Adas in some form or another, so if this is a possible way to get there, I’m all for exploring it.
    Also, I’ve already voiced my complaints against TT, but I’m just going to go on record here and say that I have no interest in pursuing legal action like some here are proposing. We really have nothing to gain from it aside from getting some kind of vindictive revenge. It’s just not worth it.

    Gerry 3 days ago
    I took a screenshot as well, but it’s the same ad as Craftypics has shown.

    Gerry 3 days ago
    Also from California and also see an ad on Facebook showing the device.

    Manfred Winter 3 days ago
    @Gary Shuster: Nothing of what Triggertrap claim can be verified. We don’t know if they have working prototypes designed for mass production, and we don’t have confirmed financial data on their expenses. All we have is statements from a proven liar.

    Gary Shuster 3 days ago
    Pieter — I didn’t see your connected attempt on linkedin. I also don’t want to put direct contact info on this board because a few people report having been banned, and I don’t want to join their ranks. But if you google my name plus the term “inventor” you’ll find me. Plus I own my own last name as a domain name.

    ndnihil 3 days ago
    David: Kickstarter definitely has a presence in the UK. My CC was billed by “Kickstarter London LTD, 5 New Street Square, EC4A 3TW, United Kingdom”. As they have a registered entity there, I would assume they can be approached from within the UK.

    Simon Ho 3 days ago
    thanks, Gary.

    Pieter 3 days ago
    Gary, I have tried to connect with you via LinkedIn. I would like to discuss a couple of options via email if possible instead of the fora we are using. Many thanks in advance!

    Stephen Cottle 3 days ago
    that’s a good spot Gary and good question

    Gary Shuster 3 days ago
    Well, typo — “I could NOT find evidence that anything was submitted”. I left out the not.

    Gary Shuster 3 days ago
    @Triggertrap – the page promoting the project captured on 10/15/2013 (https://web.archive.org/web/20131015140639/http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/triggertrap/triggertrap-redsnap-modular-camera-trigger) said that prototypes “will be sent to a select group of photographers to use in the wild in December [2013] and January [2014] . . . These prototypes will also be used for FCC and CE testing.”
    I searched the FCC site and found no evidence that anything was ever approved by the FCC (in fact, I could even find evidence that anything was submitted by triggertrap for FCC testing). Please post a link to the FCC page showing that you were telling the truth and did in fact have prototypes back then and did in fact submit them for FCC testing. I didn’t search for CE applications, but please post the link showing that you did that testing as well.
    Since I couldn’t find any record of submission to the FCC (and assuming you didn’t do so – please post the link showing that you did…), how could you possibly have been ready to produce and ship the devices without the requisite regulatory approvals? We’ve been told many times that you were all done except for actually manufacturing these things (update 26 said “We got quite far in delivering the product, and failed at the very last hurdle.”) — please explain how you could have been at the last hurdle without getting regulatory approvals?

    Gary Shuster 3 days ago
    @Craftypics — Thank you for posting this. They’re paying money to a California-based company to run ads promoting Triggertrap and featuring the Ada in the ad. If there was ever a question about whether California courts could exercise jurisdiction over triggertrap, your screenshot definitively answers the question. I’d be more than shocked if a California court (whether federal or state) found that they could not exercise personal jurisdiction over triggertrap.
    You know that saying “When you find yourself in a hole, the first thing to do is stop digging”? Good lesson, that.

    Rahim Ikram 3 days ago
    Im so annoyed that triggertrap and @hajejankamps are still tweeting as if nothing has happened, still advertising their business, he has nerve to do this,
    Mr Jan kamps has now blocked me from following him on twitter, he know’s he’s guilty

    Mulyadi Robin 4 days ago
    I’ve opted for the store credit option – but now there are no more systems for the Olympus camera – not for the foreseeable time anyway… this is really disappointing :(

    Craftypics 4 days ago
    Why am I getting Suggested posts ( PAID ) on facebook for Triggertrap ada – are they trying to rub salt into the would >> http://www.craftypics.com/photos/i-8mLp7vh/0/L/i-8mLp7vh-L.jpg

    Gary Shuster 4 days ago
    David, I can’t provide legal advice here (and in the absence of attorney client relationships, I can’t provide it at all). As you note, it is the wrong forum. I started to draft a more substantial response as to the (many) reasons I am not worried about jurisdiction being proper in California (or New York for that matter), but given that this is rapidly moving to litigation, and more importantly, given Triggertrap’s recalcitrance and refusal to work on alternatives, I don’t want to provide potential defendants with more information than necessary.
    Sorry so terse, but now that we’re almost certainly going to sue them, we’ll have to wait a short time while the lawyers work out the details. In the event that this forum gets shut down before then, please note that there is a subreddit (/r/backertrap) where we can instead communicate.
    Up until TT’s latest round of dismissive postings, I really thought we had a good shot of convincing them to do the right thing. It is disappointing, but courts are really good at forcing people to do the right thing, and I guess that’s where we’re at.

    David Lewinsohn 4 days ago
    @Gary Shuster
    “ Another potential hurdle is that the crowdfunding platform in question may not be based in the UK.
    Kickstarter, for example, is based in the US where the local jurisdiction would apply.”
    Read more at http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/latest/photo-news/crowdfunding-photography-projects-how-safe-is-your-cash-45607#rAwL2x6tLIDTrX5y.99
    Thank you, Matt Kane, for bringing this article to our attention.
    Gary does the comment above regarding Kickstarter being a US registered company mean that we the backers of this failed project can bring a class action against Triggertrap as the project was listed on the US company’s web site. It paid money (commission) to the US company for the ability to list and obtain funds to this project, etc., etc.?
    Please investigate.
    Thank you.

    David Lewinsohn 4 days ago
    Thank you Gary for your insightful research and actions.
    I feel Triggertrap and Haje just consider us a small group of vocal irritations that will eventually just fade away. All they have to do is “tough it out”.
    If the options of restarting the project are truly (and in my opinion, regrettably) off the table, then I see no other option than to pursue the alternative.
    Is there another forum where we can have confidential discussions to plan and fund our legal options?
    To me, this is past the point of just recouping our losses. This is now a point of principle and justice. It is a fact we have been misled. What transpires from that, I will let the courts decide.

    Gary Shuster 4 days ago
    As Mr. Jan Kamps and Triggertrap have asked that allegations of fraud be made through the proper channels so that they can be addressed and defended, I have made criminal reporting of this matter to http://www.actionfraud.police.uk/ — a centralized website where, as I understand it, all criminal reporting of fraud in the UK is made. Note that I am not a resident of the UK, but they did take the report because Triggertrap is apparently located in the UK.
    Although there may be other aspects backers believe to be fraudulent, I limited my initial report to the statement that only £50,000 was required to build the project, a statement that was made at a time when Triggertrap believed that at least £100,000 was actually needed. In my case, I would not have been willing to back this company in a project that large, so the representation was actually a but-for cause of my financial losses.

    Duncan Moffat 4 days ago
    @haje @triggertrap
    Could you do one nice thing for the backers. Some of us still need a camera triggering system that has greater capability than triggertrap mobile. As MIOPS and Camera Axe are not competitors anymore, can you send out an email or an update letting people know about Paul’s campaign to get us a discount on MIOPS smart (he is asking people to email adaoptions@gmail.com to say if they are interested) and inform people about the 20% off camera axe.
    I know that it is in your FAQ, but very few people are going to find that.

    Simon Ho 4 days ago
    thanks Gary

    Gary Shuster 4 days ago
    Disclaimer: This is not legal advice, and should not be relied upon as such. If you want legal advice, please retain a lawyer.
    On the fraud question, I posted earlier California’s civil fraud statutes and went through the facts and described how the facts here relate to fraud under California law. Triggertrap has assets in California (the object code for their app, at minimum, is distributed through Google and Apple, and if we get a judgment we could execute against the US copyright to the code), so in Triggertrap’s shoes, I wouldn’t so blithely assume that only UK law applies.
    However, let’s look at UK law on the (in my opinion wrong) theory advanced by Triggertrap that UK law is the only law that applies. I’m looking at the Fraud Act 2006 (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/35/pdfs/ukpga_20060035_en.pdf). Note that unlike the California statute I analyzed, this one is a criminal statute. UK residents are of course welcome to ask their local police their opinion on whether the facts here constitute a violation of the statute.
    Section 2: “Fraud by false representation: (1) A person is in breach of this section if he … (a) dishonestly makes a false representation, and (b) intends, by making the representation … (i) to make a gain for himself or another, or (ii) to cause a loss to another or to expose another to a risk of loss”. Of interest is that the standard here for CRIMINAL liability seems consistent with the California standard for civil liability. So let’s break it down (noting that I’m not licensed to practice in the UK, so this is my interpretation of what I think is pretty clear language in the statute).
    (a) dishonestly makes a false representation: Triggertrap wrote “Following our original budgets, we would be able to deliver the project if we had £100k or more, but we also felt that we would be able to generate more PR and excitement around the Kickstarter project if we hit our goal faster, and if we raised a higher multiplier of our goal (i.e. it’s a better story to say we were 580% funded, rather than 290% funded, in this case). Our backup plan was to cancel the project off Kickstarter if we raised under £100k.” The actual amount listed as necessary to build the project was £50k, half of the internally acknowledged required funds. So here is an admission that Triggertrap had prior knowledge they were making a false representation about the amount of money the project required, and in fact made that false representation knowing it was false at the time.
    (b) intends, by making the representation, (i) to make a gain for himself or another: Triggertrap wrote about being “able to generate more PR and excitement around the” project if they “raised a higher multiplier of our goal”. In my opinion, this provision is also fairly clearly met, as “PR and excitement” correlate with fundraising, and in any event, Triggertrap’s Update 4 makes this relationship express: “There’s just one week [of fundraising] to go, and we’ve already smashed all our expectations … But we want to go out with a bang. On that note we need your help” telling friends and others about the project. Sections (i) and (ii) are disjunctive, so we need not even look at (ii) if (i) is satisfied, but let’s go to (ii) anyhow: “(ii) or cause a loss to another or to expose another to a risk of loss”: By getting people to pay into the project based on an admittedly false statement about how much money was required, people were exposed to a risk of loss (in fact, that is Triggertrap’s primary basis for claiming it has no civil liability – the theory that Kickstarter inherently presents exposure to a risk of loss).
    The statute goes on to define some of these terms: “A representation is false if … (a) it is untrue or misleading, and (b) the person making it knows that it is, or might be, untrue or misleading.” In the context of the admitted knowingly false statement about how much money the project required, I don’t see this definition as changing the analysis.
    “’Representation’ means any representation as to fact or law, including a representation as to the state of mind of … (a) the person making the representation, or (b) any other person”. I don’t see this definition as changing the analysis.
    “A representation may be express or implied”: The representation about the amount of money needed to build the project was made expressly, so this prong is satisfied.
    “For the purposes of this section a representation may be regarded as made if it (or anything implying it) is submitted in any form to any system or device designed to receive, convey or respond to communications…” Triggertrap submitted the project funding requirement to Kickstarter knowing it would be published to potential backers. So this prong is also not a problem.
    I agree that fraud is a serious allegation, but looking at the facts and the law from a layperson’s perspective (again, not licensed in the UK), unless there is some piece of data that I’m missing, I don’t see how alleging fraud by Triggertrap would satisfy the requirements for libel. Perhaps Triggertrap would like to expressly address the specific statutory provisions in light of the false representation about how much money it projected was required to build the project.
    Also of interest is section 12: “Subsection (2) [the one I analyzed above] applies if an offence under this Act is committed by a body corporate”, and “If the offence is proved to have been committed with the consent or connivance of … a director, manager, secretary or other similar officer … he (as well as the body corporate) is guilty of the offence and liable to be proceeded against and punished accordingly.”
    Of further interest is that the criminal penalty for fraud is “on summary conviction, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 months or to a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum (or to both)”, or “on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 10 years or to a fine (or to both).”
    I don’t think I need to address the other kinds of fraud criminalized in the UK, but a quick read of the statute I linked to above is well worth it.
    On a more holistic note, this is a good example of why you should do your research before challenging people to look into what you are doing. I would never have looked at the UK’s criminal fraud statute if Triggertrap didn’t take such a firm position that only UK law applies and that they were tortuously harmed by falsely being accused of fraud. Having looked at UK law, though, I think Triggertrap (and possibly their principals) are in a far worse spot than I previously appreciated.
    To be clear: The question of reporting potential criminal activity is entirely divorced from the questions of pursuing refunds, civil claims, or other redress to backers. I would caution other backers to avoid in any way any offer to settle civil claims in exchange for not pursuing criminal reporting.
    On another topic, TT wrote “Kickstarter advises that we should return any remaining funds to backers who have not received their reward, in line with their terms of use.” Please post a copy of the email where they said that. I would like to determine whether Kickstarter has liability for tortious interference with contract. I very much doubt that Kickstarter actually characterized their terms of use in that way, but if they did then analysis of Kickstarter’s possible liability goes to the lawyers.
    I appreciate why Matt Kane may think that “all of this discussion based on US law is just confusing things”, but choice of law and venue in international legal disputes is inherently complex and for some, confusing. But it is far from certain that only UK law and UK courts will weigh in on this. As Triggertrap has assets in the US (eg object code for the mobile apps and, if the transfer to GPL is reversed as a fraudulent conveyance, US IP rights in the Ada code) and even Haje may have assets in the US (revenue from book sales via Amazon and other US merchants), even if UK courts refuse to recognize a US court judgment (which is far from a certainty), that may not matter in terms of obtaining and enforcing a judgment.
    I would love to be surprised by seeing some humility from Triggertrap and some willingness to consider the (quite generous, given the circumstances) suggestions made by Dan and others. Hope never dies, but I’m not holding my breath either.

    Eric Bolden 4 days ago
    Haje, you don’t get it do you? You are in direct violation of the contract you entered into with your backers, which clearly states (directly copied from Kickstarter Terms of Use): Project Creators are required to fulfill all rewards of their successful fundraising campaigns or refund any Backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill.
    Which if you fail to comply makes this FRAUD and you a THIEF!!

    Creator Triggertrap 4 days ago
    Dear backers,
    Thank you for visiting the comments section.
    We believe we have comprehensively answered all your questions in our FAQ, which you can find here: http://tri.gg/adafaq, and in the comment section of our Kickstarter campaign, located here: http://tri.gg/adacomments. For additional information, please Kickstarter’s own FAQ: http://tri.gg/ks-faq
    If you would like to claim your refund, please refer to the details in the e-mail we sent to our backers at the beginning of this month.
    If you haven’t received your e-mail, please contact us at hello@triggertrap.com, and we can get your refund processed as soon as possible.
    Thank you,
    Team Triggertrap

    Creator Triggertrap 4 days ago
    @geoff foden
    “I have taken the shop credit and my cables arrived yesterday.”
    Thanks for letting us know, Geoff – and please share the photos you take with us on our Flickr pool at http://tri.gg/flickr
    Team Triggertrap

    Creator Triggertrap 4 days ago
    @Loren Lewis
    “if you’ve blocked Paul from commenting on this forum for trying to help your backers to organize a quantity discount on the MIOPs system, then I think I’m just as disappointed in you for that reason also.”
    We don’t have the power to block people on Kickstarter’s forums. If Paul was blocked from commenting, I assume that would be because he posted something he shouldn’t have – but I’m not sure what that would be, other potentially the repetitive posts promoting the Miops high-speed trigger.
    We’ve collected some alternative high speed triggers here: http://tri.gg/ada-alternatives.
    Team Triggertrap / Haje

    Creator Triggertrap 4 days ago
    @Pai-Shih Lee
    “How can you ensure the code and intellectual properties won’t be used in your future products?”
    We will be releasing the code as Open Source, so it will be available for anyone to use, but we don’t currently have any plans to use this code for future products.
    Team Triggertrap

    Manfred Winter 4 days ago
    Rudy Covaert, I would wholeheartedly agree with your points if I had sound reason to believe any of the statements issued by the “CEO”. Trouble is he was caught lying to us and the public more than once. What makes you believe his published financial statements are correct? He has still not offered an independent look at them or published an audited detailed financial report. In case this is not fraud which could be proven by him, then it is incompetence, in such a scale where I wonder if this could not also have legal consequences in business. It is on him to clear his name, I’m not holding my breath that we get anything apart from repetitive statements and funny stories resembling fairy tales.

    Stuart Hampton 5 days ago
    Just reading back through the original campaign story (as I’d been asked for the original date for expected delivery) and it’s hard to believe this is the same company – I guess we’ll never truly know the value of Matt Kane’s involvement or impact of his departure but I feel he was pretty key one way or another.

    Rudy Coevert 5 days ago
    @Manfred winter triggertrap will publish the code and schematics by the end of this month.
    I’m not a programmer myself but can read and understand most of it.
    I think under the 2000 backers there is more than enough skills to check these files.
    I’ve seen development projects fail in companies were I worked for before because of bad management. in this case there are two major things bad project management and no financial controlling of the project.
    the missing financial controlling is something you will see in many smaller development companies. if your projectmanagement is ok it’s not a big deal. because he/she will stay within limits of budget.
    in this case what I understand of the updates everybody whas busy with development so that it is ready and nobody looked at the finance of project. otherwise they know probably half 2014 that development was way out of budget and stopped it right there.
    is this fraud not to me, is it bad management absolutely.

    Paul Massey 5 days ago
    After all the promising updates, stating that it was about to go into production and then ultimately “we’ve failed”…
    Are we really supposed to believe that £240,000 has been spent on a prototype that required £50,000 to be produced in the first place?
    That’s got to be the most expensive prototype ever made surely?
    Also – you have your originally projected goal of £50,000 left over and you already have the prototype work and firmware (allegedly).
    Nothing adds up here at all and I’ve lost £190 which is NOT spare change!
    I’m from the UK and if there’s a group willing to take this to court I’m in.

    Manfred Winter 5 days ago
    @Matt Kane, your proposal would make a lot of sense to me. I can now see more and more clearly why you left the company …
    Generally Speaking, I have no trust at all in the statements of Haje Kamps. I do not believe for a moment that the financial figures posted as an excel diagram have any resemblance to the truth. I do not believe for a moment that Triggertrap Ada is a finished design, with working (and mass-producible) Prototypes. I do not believe for a moment that the Software and Firmware is ready, and has the functionality as stated.
    Haje has lied to us from the beginning (The 50000 Pound goal …) and was obviously continuing to lie and lie whenever he posted something here or on an update.
    Haje, there have been already several attempts to get you to release an audited financial statement to the backers, and give them the opportunity to scrutinize the figures by checking your books. On top of that, accept an investigation into the existing hardware and Software by an independent agency or group of experts.
    Unless this is done (and I am willing and ready to help finance such a investigation, even if it costs me several times the amount I have pledged), I say loud and clearly: This is fraud! Now sue me!

    Loren Lewis 5 days ago
    Haje,
    Yes I’m disappointed like everyone else that I will not be getting an ADA
    Yes I’m disappointed at having $300+ USD evaporating into thin air in this manner
    But for the most part I’ve been wanting to believe you’re ‘explanations’.
    However, if you’ve blocked Paul from commenting on this forum for trying to help your backers to organize a quantity discount on the MIOPs system, then I think I’m just as disappointed in you for that reason also.

    Stuart Hampton 5 days ago
    @Team Triggertrap your interpretation of the Kickstarter terms regarding meeting your commitments, is like your ability to manage a project funded nearly 3x what you ‘secretly’ needed, a joke that nobody laughs at.
    It appears you’ve been dishonest from the start – I’m referring to your own statement of secretly needing £100k but only asking for £50k – this to me suggests a level of poor ethics of a company that does not deserve to remain in business.
    Nonetheless you raised nearly 3x what you needed and then went on to blow 80% on redesigning a product that the backers were lead to believe was pretty much ready for production only to then realise you didn’t have the money to produce any – the words negligent and incompetent spring to mind here.
    I do wonder why you didn’t turn to your backers first to explore the possibility of additional funding as others have already suggested, I would have been willing to pay a little extra to see the product come to fruition, no doubt it’s too late now, but I have to ask were you as ready to go into production as you’ve had us believe? Perhaps those you approached for additional funding were made privy to facts we have not?
    I find it arrogant that you think it’s right to try and ring fence this failure at such a cost to your loyal backers in order to save your company, I think this approach is not that of a company that should remain in business.

    Amir Soltani 5 days ago
    I’ll be filing a small claim court in Uk against TT. If there are others in UK that are doing the same it will be better.
    or TT has the opportunity to ask backers for funding to finish and deliver the product instead of ripping them off. But it’s going to be hard to make everyone trust you again.

    geoff foden 5 days ago
    I have taken the shop credit and my cables arrived yesterday.

    Pai-Shih Lee 5 days ago
    I am very angry about this and I don’t agree with the options Triggertrap provided. How come you kept saying the project was on track in the status updates then failed in the last minute? This is a poorly managed project and why I have to lose my money from your poor project management? You claim the project is failed and the product could not be delivered to backers. How can you ensure the code and intellectual properties won’t be used in your future products? How can you ensure your company will not be benefited from the results?I want a full refund or 100% Triggertrap shop credit!

    John Rees 5 days ago
    Sorry Paul, I don’t quite understand the gist of your last message, could you please clarify?
    “Hi All,
    We nearly have 80 interested parties.
    Let us have one last push.
    Sadly I cannot post on KS anymore as they banned me for suggesting MIops where willing to help backers.
    As I have said many times, I am not associated in any way with Miops ( Didn’t even know they existed until ADA failed) I was just trying to help the community.
    The strange thing is TT have posted comments that Camera axe would also be willing to help, but they do not get banned.
    Victimization :-)
    Anyway, one final push, reach out to anyone you know
    Regards
    Paul”
    adaoptions@gmail.com

    Creator Triggertrap 5 days ago
    There’s been a few people who’ve had some problems spending their shop credit refund. The most common reason for that is if you try to enter the gift card into the discount code field.
    Full details are in this FAQ: http://tri.gg/faq-shopcredit
    Thank you,
    Team Triggertrap

    Creator Triggertrap 5 days ago
    We’ve received a few questions from backers who perceive that we haven’t shared the risk and cost fairly with our backers. We’ve addressed this issue here: http://tri.gg/faq-adarisk
    Thank you,
    Team Triggertrap

    Creator Triggertrap 5 days ago
    @David Lewinsohn:
    “If Triggertrap / Haje would give a absolute guarantee that an additional 25GBP from the backer pool would secure the production of Ada”
    As discussed here: https://triggertrap.reamaze.com/kb/triggertrap-redsnap/faq-what-would-it-take-to-make-ada-happen-at-this-point-can-i-contribute-more-money we don’t know for a fact whether an additional 100k would resolve the issue.
    There’s also the further complication that a large number of backers have already received their refunds: https://triggertrap.reamaze.com/kb/triggertrap-redsnap/refund-status, and reaching out at this point to ask for the refunds back and additional funding probably isn’t going to go down well.
    Finally – and this is the core issue – I am not prepared to step down as CEO of the company, and from these comments, it appears that you guys don’t have an awful lot of faith in me, so I doubt we’d be able to raise the £100k+ that we need in either case.
    I really appreciate you guys trying to come up with creative solutions, and for ways of trying to rescue the product. Thank you for that: The passion you guys are showing for what we’ve tried to do is amazing.
    I understand that is not what all of you would prefer. I understand that you feel that we haven’t handled the way we’re wrapping up the Kickstarter campaign very well. I also understand that some of you are angry enough that you are expressing a desire to sue Triggertrap ‘into the ground’, as one of you put it. But we’re now too far down this road to change course: we’ve already had over 70% of our backers choose their refund options. It’s too late to change directions now.
    Team Triggertrap / Haje

    Creator Triggertrap 5 days ago
    @The JJ
    “Can someone repost official company owner / statistics / information all details on company – as I saw it a few days ago and failed to copy it.”
    We cannot allow personal details to be posted here, but the information you are looking for is here:
    http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/
    You can find us by searching on our company name (Triggertrap Ltd) or our company number (07742161)
    Team Triggertrap

    Creator Triggertrap 5 days ago
    @Stuart Hampton
    “None of the options offered meet the requirements of the Kickstarter agreement and are therefore unacceptable”
    We’ve addressed this topic in our FAQ, here: http://tri.gg/faq-fullrefund
    Team Triggertrap

    Creator Triggertrap 5 days ago
    @David Lewinsohn re: raising funds or getting a loan
    This is addressed here: https://triggertrap.reamaze.com/kb/triggertrap-redsnap/q-can-t-you-just-raise-additional-funds-to-deliver-ada
    Team Triggertrap

    Creator Triggertrap 5 days ago
    @Dan McColl
    “You mention that you need an additional 100K to complete Ada.”
    We’ve addressed this here: https://triggertrap.reamaze.com/kb/triggertrap-redsnap/faq-what-would-it-take-to-make-ada-happen-at-this-point-can-i-contribute-more-money
    Team Triggertrap

    Matt Kane 5 days ago
    I’m not sure of the value of setting up complicated systems of trustees and auditors in order to monitor Triggertrap taking the project forward. If you’ve a third party running the project, and a third party auditing the finances because you don’t trust Triggertrap to do it, why have Triggertrap involved at all? My proposal has a similar end result with far less legal complication. As many backers as want to can put money towards getting a finished product, and can potentially get some upside in selling them to non-backers. If you don’t get the injection-moulded enclosure made, and instead let users get them 3D-printed, then you don’t have so many issues of minimum order quantities and up-front NRE costs. There are short-run CEMs who will even do one-off PCBAs, though it does work out a lot cheaper if you can group together.
    In terms of readiness for manufacture, the prototype I played with in December seemed to work well. I think the code could do with more work, but that’s a lot easier when it’s open source and it’s not necessarily needed for manufacture. I believe the electronics design is pretty solid now, though I’ve not seen it since I left and am just going on what some third parties have said to me, but we’ll see soon when TT releases the gerbers and BoM.
    Regarding the talk of legal action, obviously as a TT shareholder I’m not a disinterested observer, but I do think that all of this discussion based on US law is just confusing things. In commercial law things are very different in England than the US, as are procedures in criminal law. The only English lawyer who I have seen express an opinion on this was one who spoke to Amateur Photographer magazine in the UK, who said that any legal action would be unlikely to succeed:
    http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/latest/photo-news/crowdfunding-photography-projects-how-safe-is-your-cash-45607
    I would imagine that TT’s lawyers gave a similar opinion. English law has a different attitude to crowdfunding to most jurisdictions in the US, and trusts users a lot more to make their own decisions about what risks they’re willing to take. For example equity crowdfunding has been legal for several years, while it’s still tied up in regulation in the US. Personally I think this is a good thing, but it could be made clearer to backers. I think the newer KS terms clarified things a lot.
    I’m not a lawyer, but off the top of my head other major differences that would affect you here include the fact that class actions don’t exist in English law. Everyone would need to take individual action. There is no Attorney General involved in criminal prosecution: you’d need to convince the police if you wanted to get criminal law involved. There is a loser-pays system, so if TT won it could recover costs. I don’t know how it compares to the US, but it’s extremely rare for the corporate veil to be pierced. I’ve never heard of a corporate officer being held liable for company debts. Finally, even though defamation law has been made more defendant-friendly recently, it is still very different to the US. There is no doubt in my mind that if he could show that he had not in fact committed fraud (and he hasn’t), that accusing Haje of fraud is defamatory. This was a screw-up, not fraud, and it’s a very serious accusation to make and not one to be made lightly, however (understandably) angry you are.
    As far as I can see, the best possible outcome here is if the backer community is able to take over the project which it rightly owns, and tries to get the product into the hands of backers first, and then perhaps the general public. At the end of the day, it is a great device!

    Rudy Coevert 5 days ago
    I agree with dan and gary that I’m absolutley willing to spend an extra 20% to get the product ready and in my hands.
    maybe the suggestion from gary to budget some extra for third party overview is best for al of us if they decide to answer to this suggestion.
    as mentioned before I still believe in the concept of ada.
    to make an simple calculation is that with 20% extra on top level.
    20% of 190 = 38 you never get the options for 38 even if you’re going to build it completely yourself.

    Pieter 5 days ago
    I think Matt’s idea is very helpful. If Haje would make all of this available to us (the backers that pledged on a level that gives the right for receiving a device) under the terms he describes, that could make production possible by us theoretically. I bet amongst all of us we have enough expertise to do this and effectively all own the product in that case. In that case I would like to see that this would be put into everyones names and it won’t be an opensource product/project at this stage. I do fear however that we could very well be disappointed with the actual state the project is currently in and nor the code or the schematics will be ready for production.

    Allan Aylard 5 days ago
    @David Lewinston: Giving Triggertrap additional funds at this point is not a good idea. Triggertrap has shown that they are not compentent to handle the project management necessary to complete the project. For this to work, an independent oversight function would need to be put in place that would have complete control over all decisions related to the Ada project. Without this in place I wouldn’t give Triggertrap another penny. I would also want a third party to test and verify that the product works as stated prior to the start of manufacturing.

    David Lewinsohn 5 days ago
    I also think Dan’s idea has great merit. If Triggertrap / Haje would give a absolute guarantee that an additional 25GBP from the backer pool would secure the production of Ada and all backers would receive the full rewards promised and paid for.
    As a sign of good faith, I state that I would put my hand in my pocket and pay the extra 25GBP to bring this project to production and therefore delivery to all the backers.
    Haje, we await your reply.

    Gary Shuster 5 days ago
    I think Dan has solved this — as long as (a) TT has in fact been honest about how much they need to complete it, and (b) people can trust TT enough to put in more money. We can answer both of these by taking a page from how bankruptcy works in the US. Basically, we find somebody in the UK who we can trust, and TT gives them full and sole authority to audit the project and to direct how the project is run and spending is done. Had TT proposed this out the gate, I don’t think either of these would be an issue, but because trust is fragile and the initial approach anything but delicate, I doubt enough backers would do this without having a trusted third party overseeing it.
    I’m not trying to take away from Dan’s idea. In fact, I think it is awesome and workable (assuming TT is willing to do it), but we will need to budget perhaps an extra $10,000 or so for oversight and audit. What a great solution though. It avoids litigation that, if successful, would bankrupt TT, everybody gets what they were promised, and TT gets to market a great product.
    @Ben: Disclaimer: This isn’t legal advice. If you want legal advice, please hire an attorney. With that disclaimer, there are complexities involved in suing people individually when they have been operating through a limited liability entity (I haven’t researched it so I’m guessing without knowing that Haje is doing so). In the US at least, there are ways to “pierce the corporate veil”, and regardless of that, if there is fraud, an individual can often be sued for the fraudulent misrepresentations. So yes, the litigators are absolutely going to look at Haje’s personal liability and I wouldn’t be surprised if he was named as an individual defendant in at least some of the jurisdictions where this gets litigated, but it isn’t as simple as suing TT directly.

    Dan McColl 5 days ago
    You mention that you need an additional 100K to complete Ada. That’s 50 quid a backer. In good faith TT could chip in half of this and leave the backers to chip in an extra 25 quid or approx add 20% to their initial pledge.
    Personally I would rather add 20% to the cost and have the project completed and delivered than to lose 80%.

    Kevin McAllister 5 days ago
    What is the equivalent of the Attorney General in the UK?
    I believe I may file a criminal action for fraud against this company?

    Ben Appleton 5 days ago
    Haje, you are going to be personally sued unless you stop being an ‘I’m not listening’ child.

    David Lewinsohn 5 days ago
    Matt, This is the problem Haje has made for himself.
    I agree, Haje has stated he tried to obtain more finance from both Investment and a bank loan. He has indicated that the investment option did not produce sufficient additional seed funding to complete the Ada project.
    Haje could have taken the loan option, but he did not, as he felt the fees and charges were “too” high. So, in reality, this option is still available to Haje, it is just more than he wanted to pay.
    Until Haje changes his position and starts to treat us with respect, he is only digging a deeper hole for his company and himself.

    Matt Kane 5 days ago
    My suggestion re the trademark is less about the intrinsic monetary value of the mark, and more about the ability for it to be a seal of approval for official products. It could also form a focal point for organising backers to try and get them made. This is all of course dependent on finding a CEM who can make them for a realistic price.

    Matt Kane 5 days ago
    David: I think Haje said in the original post that he’s tried for both loans and more investment in order to finish the project, and failed on both counts. I’d imagine having a load of people threatening to sue the company wouldn’t make the chances any higher.

    David Lewinsohn 5 days ago
    @Triggertrap / Haje
    Are you so blinkered that you cannot see we, the backers are trying to find ways for you and your company’s long term survival?
    Yes we also are looking for a way to receive the “full Rewards” that you promised.
    We already know the way to pursue a full refund, although we have refrained from initiating that step, as it will close all other avenues open to you at this moment.
    Haje, speak other “wise counsellors” as the ones you are using do not have your best long term interests at heart.
    @Gary Shuster has put forward a clear and new option.
    Now I see 3 possible outcomes:
    1. Triggertrap opens its doors to additional investors to provide the needed funds to not only bring Ada to the 2000 backers, but also take it to the international market with potentially genuine returns on their investment.
    (I seem to remember this was tried. The circumstances are different now and you are pitching to a potentially interested group now, although as a business model so far, you do not impress me.)
    2. Triggertrap obtains a loan and completes the “full rewards” offered to your backers and retains full IP over the product. The fees and interest charges come from future profits of Ada and other products of Triggertrap.
    3. We, the backers, sue the pants off both Triggertrap and you Haje for unspecified damages. We will sue you for not only the full refund, but for all our not inconsiderable time and efforts to date.
    (Do not think your lawyers can offer a last minute build option before it reaches the courts. We will not accept that. Once we initiate this action, there is no diversion and no alternatives.)
    As I have previously stated, if you want this problem to go away, choose either option 1 or 2 above, because my patience with your unacceptable position to date is fast running out.
    If you think that sitting tight on the offerings you have put forward will suffice and we will be just a bad memory in the future, I have sorry news for you. The Internet never forgets! We will never forget!
    You have clear options available to you. Doing nothing new, is not one of those options.

    Gary Shuster 5 days ago
    @Ed, implied in what you wrote is this: He has attempted to take no monetary risk, but has in fact attracted enough interest in litigation against Triggertrap (and him personally to the extent that people allege fraud in his representations) that he has in fact opened himself up to enormous monetary risk, similar to your term “many multiples of what he should have just paid”.
    @Matt, I appreciate the creativity of your thinking on this, but the problem is that I doubt the trademark has much value. First, the Ada mark has not been used in conjunction with a successful product or service (which is how a trademark gets to have value); second, it covers a very narrow class of goods and services; third, it is strongly associated with a product that failed. That said, the mere fact that you are trying to find a creative solution makes me wish you still worked for Triggertrap.
    IP is often difficult to value, but in this case, I’d say that the highest value IP is the code itself because it can be protected by a court-enforced process (i.e. copyright infringement suits). The middle value is the schematics (less easily protected in court, although without knowing exactly what the design elements are, I can’t say that copyright doesn’t apply to some elements of it). The least value is probably in the trademark for the reasons I outlined above.
    The piece that I really don’t understand here is that it is becoming painfully obvious that litigation defense is going to end up costing them more than building the devices would cost and if they lose (as in my opinion is likely), the verdict (well, probably verdicts given the many jurisdictions backers come from) would probably bankrupt them anyhow. So I’m unsure why they feel recalcitrance is the best response.

    Nicolas Vodovar 5 days ago
    @Matt Kane: it is indeed an interesting idea but may not suit some/many bakers since I would guess it requires certain skills. Nevertheless, I think it’s definitively a idea to discuss.
    @Gary Shuster: I do totally agree with the fact that backers (and there are 2000) could have helped if the problem would have been notified earlier. I drafted a comment at some point where I mentioned the time TT asked for help with the arduino code. I don’t know if they got any but I am pretty sure people offered their help according to their skills on that matter. In the current matter, I am pretty sure that some backers would have provided TT with help regarding the fund raising needed to complete the production. Finally, it seems to me that Haje who claims to be a supporter of crowdsourcing never really grasped the concept: ADA was delayed numerous time and at all these steps backers were behind him and his team; likewise, I am sure that if they communicated on the money we could have helped and wait a bit longer to get the “ready for production” product, produced.

    Ed Catlett 5 days ago
    Excellent job David Lewinsohn! It is quite obvious by the pressure Haje is trying to bring to bear is to just get people to give up quickly and take his poor terms that do not meet his contractual obligations. My hope is that if he continues to go down that road he loses many multiples of what he should have just paid, especially since he has taken no monetary risk whatsoever, gaining IP and a larger company in the process.

    Matt Kane 5 days ago
    First up, a disclaimer for anyone who missed it: I used to be CTO of Triggertrap, though I left nearly a year ago. I’m still a shareholder but have no involvement in the running of the company.
    This is not a fully formed idea, just something I was thinking about and wanted to throw out there. There’s been quite a bit of talk about how people don’t like that the code and tech is being open sourced, as it should just be for backers. I have another suggestion. How about using the Arduino model of open source hardware but controlled trademark, and Triggertrap gives the Ada trademarks to backers? Probably only those who backed at a level that got the device. That way any backers can build the devices and sell them under the Ada name. Perhaps a group of backers could club together to get a CEM to follow through with manufacture? It’s a possible way for backers to both get hold of the devices and maybe even get some profit from it. I should emphasise this is entirely my idea, and is not coming from anyone at Triggertrap. I’ve no idea of how it would be structured. Perhaps the simplest would be a non-exclusive licence granted to each backer letting them sell under the Ada name. I should emphasise that I am not suggesting this so I could do this myself. I am adamant that I will in no way make any money from the Ada tech, even though I left a long time before this happened. In any case I’m only a £1 backer so probably wouldn’t qualify.
    I’d love to hear peoples thoughts (including whether the TT guys would be up for this).

    Pieter 5 days ago
    @Gary Haje clearly has lost it a little. Basically saying that if he commits a crime in the US, but is a UK citizen, the laws in the US don’t apply to him, therefore he walks. The tongue biting went well for a couple of hours. ;) The arrogance he’s displaying and has been from the beginning is extremely disturbing to me and predominantly the reason why I at least get so angry.

    Gary Shuster 5 days ago
    I have seen so many reasonable proposals just ignored or shot down by Triggertrap. I’m sure this one will be ignored too, but here it is anyhow:
    The reason people are so angry is that backers were told all along that everything was fine. Many of the backers have experience and resources that would have been very helpful in getting things back on track, but without knowing that there was a problem, those opportunities were lost. The backers did generate one very valuable asset, however: The intellectual property. The source code and designs have a lot of value. When triggertrap listed the project, it made two different sets of promises: First, a promise to deliver the ADA devices, and second, that “Once we’ve started shipping, we’ll publish the source code on GitHub” and make the source available under GPLv3. First off, since they never did start shipping, the trigger for openly publishing the code hasn’t (and won’t) happen. Second, there was no promise to make the designs open source.
    Rather than work with the backers, who, after all, paid for all of this, Triggertrap unilaterally decided to give away the source code and designs — thereby destroying the value of an asset that could have been used to pay back some or all of the debt to the backers.
    Imagine how things would have gone done if, instead of what Triggertrap sent, we all received an update like this: “We are deeply sorry to say that we’ve stalled in building out the Ada units. We did a poor job managing our costs, and we are now about £65,000 short of what it would take to build the devices. Instead of just failing to deliver, however, we want to reach out to our backers and ask them for help. We are, after all, in this together. We can resolve this in a few different ways. First, we tried to get a bridge loan but we didn’t want to pay too much interest. If any of the backers are interested in becoming part owners of Triggertrap, or if they are able to help arrange financing, please contact us. This is our preferred resolution, since our customers get their Ada units and we get to bring on board backers with financial expertise. Another option is to market the software and hardware to a company who would build the units. I know we intended to open source the software, and we’d still like to do that, but of course it is more important that we do right by our backers. We’ve approached some companies about taking over the Ada project, but without much luck. If any of the backers have ideas or contacts, please let us know and we’ll pursue those vigorously. Finally, I suspect some of the backers have ideas we haven’t even considered — and we’re open to those. Please contact us and we can brainstorm. There is no reason — yet — to go from “ready to ship” to “failure”. We want to make sure we exhaust every possible way to resolve this before we give up. We have put the money left over from this project (around 20%) into an escrow account, and in the event we utterly exhaust our options, at least we can provide partial refunds from that. But I don’t want to give the impression that giving up is anything but the final, worst option. We are in sight of the finish line, and we’re not going to give up without a fight. Please give it some thought, ask around, and if you are able to help us figure a way out of this, you will be a hero to us and to your fellow backers. I know this is not the update you wanted to get, but we are determined to make this work for our backers. In the worst case scenario, we would be willing to give the code and designs to a third party in exchange for their agreement to fulfill the backer awards. They can free ride on our £200,000 of investment in exchange for spending perhaps £80,000 building the devices.”
    I wouldn’t have liked receiving that update, but I wouldn’t have been angry about it. Instead, we were presented with more or less “we tried everything we could, but we didn’t couldn’t figure it out so we give up”.
    I know that many backers appear to have lost all faith in Triggertrap, but it may not be too late to reach out to backers in a productive way similar to this.
    As an aside, just being a UK company does not insulate one from liability in other places where one does business. It is also unacceptable to say more or less that it doesn’t matter whether they violated US or Australian law, since they’re in the UK. It would be an odd position to take anyhow, Triggertrap has assets in California (e.g. the object code for their iOs and Android apps). There are also provisions for enforcement of foreign judgments in the UK. The question is whether Triggertrap really wants to go down that road.

    Stuart Hampton 5 days ago
    None of the options offered meet the requirements of the Kickstarter agreement and are therefore unacceptable. I shall be looking into the option of a chargeback tomorrow.

    Darren Ingram 5 days ago
    I thought Haje owned the company. He certainly writes on Twitter @haje with more words than just a hired director may do – might be worth a follow to learn more. Companies House certainly knows the answer if you need it.

    The JJ 5 days ago
    Can someone repost official company owner / statistics / information all details on company – as I saw it a few days ago and failed to copy it.
    Most appreciated!

    Ian Bowie 5 days ago
    I am being chased to make a decision on what I want to do. I feel that I want the code to be published and the details of the pcb layout to be published before and not after I make my decision,
    This is to ensure that settlements is not reached and these steps are not carried out . If everyone settles , then the argument can be that there is no need to perform these steps.
    These will ensure that the developments that we paid for are at least not kept under wraps by the company which might retain the copyright to one or other of these,
    This will ensure that competitors might be found to keep the price competitive,

    Duncan Moffat 6 days ago
    @haje “This was a suggestion that came up early, and we discussed it in great detail within the team.
    In theory, this would be possible if there was a single, say, quarterly payment to be made. Instead, there are almost 2,000 backers. The logistics and cost of paying out monthly or quarterly instalments to that many people mean that this is not a viable option.
    In practice, are offering to refund the remaining Ada funds, in the form of either 20% refund or 50% shop credit.
    Team Triggertrap”
    This is the cheapest option available to you. It is also the most cowardly and dishonorable. You could have either taken out a loan to finish production or used the future profits of the company to pay back the backers. It didn’t even have to be a payment plan (as you seem to want to hide behind the logistics excuse), you could have paid the full amount once you made that money. You could have said to backers that there would be a delay in receiving their Ada until Triggertrap had made the £100,000 to fund the production run. You did none of those things and it is pathetic.
    Anyway, I think I will keep an eye on this thread and see how any legal action develops. Suing people should always be the last option but in your case, I think it is deserved. Everyone here is fed up of being patronized. In reference to the T&Cs; You were clearly more “unwilling” than “unable” to fulfill this project and I think that will probably be your downfall. I don’t see how your position is defensible legally. Unless you set up a separate company for Ada when the project was funded, the rest of Triggertrap is going to be on the hook for the refunds.

    Pieter 6 days ago
    Biting my tongue.

    steve wood 6 days ago
    Just a quick update for UK-Based backers who are interested in the Camera Axe. Proto-pic, who are the UK distributors have very kindly agreed to honour the Camera Axe 20% discount available in the U.S.
    http://proto-pic.co.uk/camera-axe-5/
    Ewan at Proto-pic says “we will offer the full 20% until the first of may the code is the same “Triggertrap”
    and can be used against all Camera Axe products on the store – however it is limited to 1 use per user.
    We’ve got some arriving soon, just a heads up it may take a week or so for stock to arrive if we run out.

    A big thanks to Ewan at Proto-pic for supporting us backers and going the extra mile.I’ve happily placed my order with them, I’ve now received my store credit with Triggertrap, which has been redeemed. I think this, pending any group action, concludes my business, so I will be making no further comment on this page.

    Creator Triggertrap 6 days ago
    Thank you all for your comments.
    We believe we have comprehensively answered all your questions in our FAQ, which you can find here: http://tri.gg/adafaq, and in the comment section of our Kickstarter campaign, located here: http://tri.gg/adacomments. There is also further information available in the Kickstarter FAQ, which is located here: https://www.kickstarter.com/help/faq/kickstarter%20basics
    If you would like to claim your refund, please refer to the details in the e-mail we sent to our backers at the beginning of this month.
    If you haven’t received your e-mail, please contact us at hello@triggertrap.com, and we can get your refund processed as soon as possible.
    Thank you,
    Team Triggertrap

    Creator Triggertrap 6 days ago
    @MDDCFlyer
    “1. What about payment plan? Pay us off in installments once the company get more money.”
    This was a suggestion that came up early, and we discussed it in great detail within the team.
    In theory, this would be possible if there was a single, say, quarterly payment to be made. Instead, there are almost 2,000 backers. The logistics and cost of paying out monthly or quarterly instalments to that many people mean that this is not a viable option.
    In practice, are offering to refund the remaining Ada funds, in the form of either 20% refund or 50% shop credit.
    Team Triggertrap

    Creator Triggertrap 6 days ago
    @MDDCFlyer
    “2. Did anyone lost his job over this mismanagement?”
    We do not comment on specifics. We are reviewing what happened in this kickstarter project, and any fallout from this will be an internal matter.
    Team Triggertrap

    Creator Triggertrap 6 days ago
    @David Lewinsohn
    “I live in Australia and have sort preliminary legal advice” (…) “It is my understanding the Company and Contract laws in UK and Australia in this case would substantially be the same.”
    We are an UK company, and any legal issues that were to arise from this would be brought in the UK. As such, I won’t comment on anything the lawyer you spoke to may or may not have said, as I cannot judge its relevance under English law, and in either case, I will not comment on any legal issues in a public forum.
    Team Triggertrap / Haje

    Creator Triggertrap 6 days ago
    @Gary Shuster
    “I can’t comment on the law outside of the US”
    In which case, little of what you wrote is relevant. We are an UK company, and UK law is very different from that in the US on many aspects.
    Team Triggertrap

    Marc Ruesen 6 days ago
    Count me in David!
    I’d even pay a bit extra to make sure that in the end I wil get my ADA.
    Refunds are not a good option!
    Greetz from the Netherlands

    Manfred Winter 6 days ago
    Fully agree with you, David. You hit the point. Your offer to accept another 2 Month delay is generous, but I too would accept such a solution, and prefer it against a full refund.
    I too am willing to take necessary legal steps.

    Sebastian Kennerknecht 6 days ago
    Agree with you fully David. I too am willing to support legal action.

    Pieter 6 days ago
    Thanks David, in light of keeping this a clear discussion I won’t be tempted to respond to any provocation by Haje. I’m 100% supportive of what you say and in case Triggertrap fails to deliver I am also willing to support legal action.

    David Lewinsohn 6 days ago
    @Triggertrap / Haje
    Thank you for addressing my rather large statement earlier.
    If I may be allowed to summarise the position to date.
    1. Triggertrap / Haje has spent 80% of the total backers funds getting a product to the final “got to production” point. For this argument I will ignore whether the money spent to date was wisely spent or not.
    2. Triggertrap / Haje has identified that the cost of production to fulfil the contract Triggertrap entered into with its Backers exceeds the residual sum available in the funding pool (20%)
    3. Triggertrap / Haje has approached a number of financial organisations seeking additional capital to fund the production. This option was seen as not viable because the interest charged was considered excessive by Triggertrap / Haje.
    4. Below is the relevant paragraphs in the Kickstarter Terms of Use active at the time of funding the Triggertrap Redsnap / Ada project.
    https://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use/oct2012
    This applies only to projects launched on or before October 18th, 2014 at 11:59pm ET
    Projects: Fundraising and Commerce
    • Kickstarter does not offer refunds. A Project Creator is not required to grant a Backer’s request for a refund unless the Project Creator is unable or unwilling to fulfill the reward.
    • Project Creators are required to fulfill all rewards of their successful fundraising campaigns or refund any Backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill.
    5. Below is the updated and expanded paragraphs in the Kickstarter Terms of Use now in use.
    These updated terms went into effect on October 19, 2014, at 12 a.m. Eastern Time, and apply to all projects launched on Kickstarter on or after that date. To see the previous version of these terms, which govern all projects launched before that date, click here.
    Kickstarter is not a part of this contract — the contract is a direct legal agreement between creators and their backers. Here are the terms that govern that agreement:
    When a project is successfully funded, the creator must complete the project and fulfill each reward. Once a creator has done so, they’ve satisfied their obligation to their backers.
    Throughout the process, creators owe their backers a high standard of effort, honest communication, and a dedication to bringing the project to life. At the same time, backers must understand that when they back a project, they’re helping to create something new — not ordering something that already exists. There may be changes or delays, and there’s a chance something could happen that prevents the creator from being able to finish the project as promised.
    If a creator is unable to complete their project and fulfill rewards, they’ve failed to live up to the basic obligations of this agreement. To right this, they must make every reasonable effort to find another way of bringing the project to the best possible conclusion for backers. A creator in this position has only remedied the situation and met their obligations to backers if:
    • they post an update that explains what work has been done, how funds were used, and what prevents them from finishing the project as planned;
    • they work diligently and in good faith to bring the project to the best possible conclusion in a timeframe that’s communicated to backers;
    • they’re able to demonstrate that they’ve used funds appropriately and made every reasonable effort to complete the project as promised;
    • they’ve been honest, and have made no material misrepresentations in their communication to backers; and
    • they offer to return any remaining funds to backers who have not received their reward (in proportion to the amounts pledged), or else explain how those funds will be used to complete the project in some alternate form.
    The creator is solely responsible for fulfilling the promises made in their project. If they’re unable to satisfy the terms of this agreement, they may be subject to legal action by backers.
    6. I can understand your wish that the Terms of Use currently applicable to Kickstarter projects were the one applicable to the Triggertrap Redsnap/Ada project. BUT, it is not. The “let-out clauses” in the new Terms of Use do not apply to the Triggertrap Redsnap / Ada project.
    7. I live in Australia and have sort preliminary legal advice on the following matters.
    If this dispute went to court in Australia what would be the likely outcome:
    a. Is the latter Terms of Use published by Kickstater on October 19 2014 applicable to our dispute with Triggertrap?
    i. Answer: No.
    b. So, the previous Terms of Use is the only one applicable to the Triggertrap Redsnap / Ada project?
    i. Answer: Yes.
    c. In your expert opinion, how would a judge determine the key clause in Kickstarter’s Terms of Use :” Project Creators are required to fulfill all rewards of their successful fundraising campaigns or refund any Backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill.”
    i. Answer: In my opinion, and I can only speak for the specific laws in Australia, a judge would see that the intent of the clause was to provide full compensation (A full refund) to the backer in the unfortunate even that the Creator could not fulfil all rewards.
    This clause also specifically identifies the term “required to fulfil all rewards” This adds further weight to the fact the term “Refund” means a full refund in this case.
    If Kickstarter wanted to minimise the impact of a failed project to the Creator, they would have used the words in the updated Terms of Use.
    It is my understanding the Company and Contract laws in UK and Australia in this case would substantially be the same.
    d. In you considered opinion, what are the chances of a successful ruling by the judge in favour of a full refund to the Backers?
    i. Answer: Based on the evidence you supplied and the clear Kickstarter Terms of Use, I believe the likelihood of success is extremely high.
    8. Triggertrap / Haje, according to my feedback you have difficult decisions to make. I understand you want to minimize the impact of this unfortunate episode to yourself and your company. I see you have two options:
    a. Secure additional funding from one of the financial institutions you visited and re-instate the Ada project. Based on your previous statements it will cost an additional ~100,000GBP.
    OR
    b. Go to court and hope that the Terms of Use governing the Triggertrap Redsnap / Ada project will be interpreted in exactly the way the new Terms of Use are written. This is a gamble in the extreme and apart from the legal fees it most likely will set you back the full refund price for every backer. (more than 290,000GBP)
    9. Personally, I would much prefer you took the first option. All your backers ever wanted was the product you pledged to us. If you want this problem to go away, I strongly recommend you take this option. We have waited so long. Your last ship date was May 2015. This “hiccup” has added ~ 2 months. So it should be possible for Triggertrap Ada to be shipped in July 2015? I am sure your backers would be prepared to wait as long as there was a guarantee of delivery in full.
    10. I can only speak for myself in this matter. Please understand, I will add my voice and my funds to support a court case against you and Triggertrap if you continue to take this immovable position.

    Sid 6 days ago
    I called up my credit card company for a credit reversal, but they suggested that as the payment has been made more than 6 months ago, they cannot process the claim :(

    MDDCFlyer 6 days ago
    After taken couple of days of from here (you know, some of us don’t have KS projects to live from, but actually need to work), I see the level of arrogance and hubris just grow and grow.
    That said, I’ve raised several questions in the past that are still not answered – I’d appreciate an answer:
    1. What about payment plan? Pay us off in installments once the company get more money.
    2. Did anyone lost his job over this mismanagement?
    Simple questions, should be simple to answer.

    Dan Upton 6 days ago
    I realized after I hit post that the comment was worded kind of awkwardly, but you seem to have captured what I was getting at. The only think I can find that corroborates that though is this from a comment by TT on March 2:
    “When we contacted Kickstarter about the situation, they informed us that we should ‘return any remaining funds to backers who have not received their reward’. Given that we have 20% of the Kickstarter funds remaining, that’s the percentage we’re offering as a refund.”
    But as you said, they (understandably) did not name who at KS they talked to, and I don’t see any backers who have posted that they got a straight answer from KS about it either. I feel like there might have been something in one of the FAQs as well, but others have suggested that the content of the FAQs has been changed since they were originally posted so I have no way to tell for sure.

    Thomas Greve 6 days ago
    @Gary: thank you for your insightful comments on the legal aspects. As i have read it, Dan’s comment should probably read: “TT claim, that KS agreed…”. There never was a direct quote of KS communication, nor a name of a KS representative referred to. In their FAQ (http://tri.gg/faq-fullrefund), TT still claim that “KS advises” (maybe, i should take a screen shot of it ;-). I personally doubt, that this is legally resilient.

    Gary Shuster 6 days ago
    @Dan — When you say “KS apparently agreed (maybe before they even announced the failure, I forget) that they aren’t required by those ToS to give a full refund,” are you able to find where that statement was made? I’m curious because in California at least there is a legally actionable thing called “tortious interference with contract”. Kickstarter takes great pains to make clear that the payment backers make creates a contract between the backer and the project creator. If Kickstarter has told Triggertrap that they can ignore the plain language of the agreement and make only a partial refund, Kickstarter may have liability for tortious interference with contract.
    I very much doubt that Kickstarter would make that kind of error, but if they did, it creates an entirely new issue, potentially opening Kickstarter up to this new source of liability.

    Aaron Turner 6 days ago
    @Triggertrap,
    I just wanted to say thanks for the info and the honesty. This is the second Kickstarter campaign that I’ve backed which has failed (the other being the infamous ZPM Espresso machine) and I will say I think you’ve handled things relatively well considering the circumstances. This isn’t to absolve you or the team from your failure, but rather I appreciate you owning up to it and explaining where the money went and how things went.
    Other projects would do well to learn from both your mistakes AND your transparency.
    That said, I think Kickstarter really needs to require funded projects (especially hardware related ones) to post quarterly financial statements so people can see how their money is being used. While backing any project is taking a risk, it shouldn’t be such a surprise to the backers when it does fail.

    Dan Upton 6 days ago
    @Bryan, TT has responded to that several times both in this thread and in their FAQ (https://triggertrap.reamaze.com/kb/triggertrap-redsnap/faq-doesn-t-the-kickstarter-terms-of-service-say-you-have-to-give-a-full-refund). The gist of it is they don’t think, and KS apparently agreed (maybe before they even announced the failure, I forget) that they aren’t required by those ToS to give a full refund. (The “upshot” of this is also that TT is therefore not in violation of ToS of a previous project, so that’s not reason enough for KS to cancel any future attempts by TT to crowd fund something.)
    @Allan, well said…while maybe some people feel better with their angry rants and repeated demands, I kind of wonder if the discussion between the Haje/TT and the backers had been more amicable and less “you dirty scoundrels stole my money and planned to from the beginning” if we could have actually come to a better resolution.

    Bryan Georgeofthejungle Roberts 6 days ago
    Im very interested in TT’s response to this “https://www.kickstarter.com/blog/accountability-on-kickstarter
    The answer to the question “Is a creator legally obligated to fulfill the promises of their project?”
    “Yes. Kickstarter’s Terms of Use require creators to fulfill all rewards of their project or refund any backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill. (This is what creators see before they launch.) We crafted these terms to create a legal requirement for creators to follow through on their projects, and to give backers a recourse if they don’t. We hope that backers will consider using this provision only in cases where they feel that a creator has not made a good faith effort to complete the project and fulfill.”

    Richard J R Fletcher 6 days ago
    Considering the responses from TT and various threats I will make this my last post on this page.
    This KK article is dated 4 September 2012, so pre-dating the funding of the TT project by over a year.
    https://www.kickstarter.com/blog/accountability-on-kickstarter
    The answer to the question “Is a creator legally obligated to fulfill the promises of their project?”
    “Yes. Kickstarter’s Terms of Use require creators to fulfill all rewards of their project or refund any backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill. (This is what creators see before they launch.) We crafted these terms to create a legal requirement for creators to follow through on their projects, and to give backers a recourse if they don’t. We hope that backers will consider using this provision only in cases where they feel that a creator has not made a good faith effort to complete the project and fulfill.”

    Allan Aylard 6 days ago
    I’m as disappointed and disgusted at Triggertrap’s actions as anyone else. But we need to remain respectful and realistic.
    The points as I see it are:
    Triggertrap was purposely misleading in the Kickstarter Ada project by setting the minimum funding targets at a level that they knew and have publicly stated where insufficient to complete the project.
    Triggertrap also misrepresented the state of the ADA development in the initial Kickstarter campaign.

    Once Triggertrap made the decision to replace the processor in the ADA design, they should have refunded the backers money in full at that point. The project from that time on was not the project that we signed on to.
    Triggertrap continuously withheld or misrepresented important information from the backers about the progress of the project.
    Triggertrap failed to provide the rudimentary project management oversight that an average person would consider necessary for the success of the project. The project didn’t fail because the technology was too difficult, it failed because the project wasn’t managed.
    Triggertrap used some of the backers funds to resolve the dispute over the name (Redsnap vs Ada) of the project. Why did this come out of the backers funding? Do any of the backer care what the name of the product was? This issue was entirely related to post project sales and marketing.
    Triggertrap lied to us when the set a product shipping date of May 2015. Based on the lack of a final contract with the manufacturer(s) they had no basis for setting this date. It is clear that Update #24 was meant to calm the growing fear among the backers.

    Pieter 6 days ago
    I just wish you would realise what a total failure you are personally and that this is not a ‘learning moment’ that you can base a crappy book on. A discussion with your psychiatrist maybe, not a book… You seem to live in a fantasy world which is now being encouraged and indulged by Kickstarter. Someone needs to wake you up. With the things you say you are really digging yourself deeper and deeper. Why don’t you provide at least insight in your books? I’m curious how this works tax wise as well. Was this considered a donation by the UK tax office? Maybe that’s an idea for us to ask them to investigate this matter it sure is enough money you burnt for them to be worried about. Showing this little respect and consideration by basically saying ‘suck it up’ and not giving any information on how you exactly managed to mess this up so badly really makes you a very unpleasant person to say the least. You can’t look people in the eyes and seriously mean that you think that overfunding this campaign by this much didn’t make it easier to create the final product and fulfil the backer’s pledges. That means you simply can’t count and if that’s the case Kickstarter really should start using some basic math tests before anyone can start a campaign. Anyway now that kickstarter apparently has the status of a charity I am again curious what that means for their position as a company in terms of compliance, but we can rest assured they have enough lawyers to make sure this is covered of course. What a joke mate, what a joke.

    Troy Jones 6 days ago
    We should take this to the papers.. What happens when a Kickstarter project fails.. What about the broken promises, Mis management of funds. Blatant abuse trust. Kickstarter loop holes. Getting out of ToS because it dint say “full refund” Papers like the Guardian, Daily mail etc are always supporting kickstarter projects both Triggertrap and Vela have been featured..
    How about the media hearing about the total lack of support from kickstarter when things go wrong.. How kickstarter backers can be taken advantage of we have so such a good case against triggertrap.
    If Haje want to salvage triggertrap reputation then can still do the right thing and simply refund everyone simple taking responsibility for his actions.
    But no by May Haje must think this will all be forgotten about.. Ever one will be refunded with one of there offered refund options where they like it or not..
    If Haje thinks he can silents people who are giving triggertrap a bad name then he is going to blow the dust of his checkbook.. Wonder how much Libel cases would cost.. A lot more then just refunding us thats for sure..

    Domenico Tricarico 6 days ago
    Haje says: “If you believe we have committed fraud, please go through the correct channels so there can be an investigation, and we can clear our name. If not, then stop speculating (and committing libel in the process)”
    you cannot say what we have to do or not…we will not stop, we will use every channel we want, the words we wants, everybody have to know who you are…triggertrap have to fail..we want your company fail…because you deserve it…

    Sebastian Kennerknecht 6 days ago
    @HAJE You keep saying that you are sorry, but part of the reason people are so angry is because you are showing a lack of humility, especially in your comment answers. The arrogance you are displaying is not helping you. Just my two cents.
    Comments like “and a small minority of our other backers, would prefer as the outcome of this process.” and “Not a bad idea, there’s certainly a lot to be learned from this process. For now, we are trying to share what we’ve learned via blog posts, however.” will keep backers like myself incredibly frustrated with how you are handling this….

    The JJ 6 days ago
    @HAje
    Do you really want satiate those that once believed in this project? That dug deep and gave you their hard earned money on a hope and a prayer. Of course they believed that this might not happen, (of course your updates insist otherwise!) – they knew this was not a store blah lah blah…!
    Then stop going in circles as you say and “…..provide us with a detailed itemized expenditure log of exactly what and how our money way spent on down to the penny?…” as I and Troy Jones and many others have asked for.
    Where is that in your FAQ? Point me to it and I and 100’s like me will begin to understand. We will comprehend this epic failure and empathize with your “gut wrenching emotional state” – (I paraphrase).
    I understand why you cannot produce it. We all do. Mishandling of funds is a crime. Its called fraud – even if you begin with good intentions.
    I know your lawyers are insisting otherwise and you feel insulated. Whats the worse that can happen you say, a bunch of comments – mostly from the same people typing the word REFUND in the comment section of KS.
    <<<<< itemized expenditure log – something tangible – something real – something we can understand.>>>>
    We know its not all black and white, do you?

    Gary Shuster 6 days ago
    Triggertrap wrote: “To everyone mentioning or outright accusing us of ‘fraud’, whether here in the comments, or in other public medium – that is a very, very serious allegation indeed…. If you believe we have committed fraud, please go through the correct channels so there can be an investigation, and we can clear our name. If not, then stop speculating (and committing libel in the process).” I would not want this veiled threat to pursue libel claims to have the effect of stifling legitimate criticism of Triggertrap. So let’s look at what such a libel claim would actually look like.
    I can’t comment on the law outside of the US, and to be clear this is not to be construed as legal advice; rather, if you want legal advice, please retain a lawyer. With that out of the way, on the U.S. side truth is an absolute defense to libel (this is a first amendment issue). Any libel judgment contrary to U.S. law is unenforceable in the US (see http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-111publ223/html/PLAW-111publ223.htm), so for people in the U.S., the concern about domestic enforcement of foreign libel judgments is essentially zero (with some exceptions if the foreign jurisdiction provides as much first amendment protection as the US would – see a lawyer before relying on this). Although Triggertrap later modified the post to remove it’s admission, as of 3/2/15, they had posted “Following our original budgets, we would be able to deliver the project if we had £100k or more, but we also felt that we would be able to generate more PR and excitement around the Kickstarter project if we hit our goal faster, and if we raised a higher multiplier of our goal (i.e. it’s a better story to say we were 580% funded, rather than 290% funded, in this case). Our backup plan was to cancel the project off Kickstarter if we raised under £100k.” While I do not know why Triggertrap removed that admission soon after I pointed it out in a post, I have my suspicions.
    Without even looking at other ways fraud may have occurred, that admission alone is enough to give rise to the appearance of fraud.
    Consider California’s definition of fraud, found in Civil Code section 1572:
    1572. Actual fraud, within the meaning of this Chapter, consists in any of the following acts, committed by a party to the contract, or with his connivance, with intent to deceive another party thereto, or to induce him to enter into the contract:
    1. The suggestion, as a fact, of that which is not true, by one who does not believe it to be true;
    2. The positive assertion, in a manner not warranted by the information of the person making it, of that which is not true, though he believes it to be true;
    3. The suppression of that which is true, by one having knowledge or belief of the fact;
    4. A promise made without any intention of performing it; or,
    5. Any other act fitted to deceive.
    Breaking it down, and looking only at the first kind of fraud:
    “Actual fraud … consists in any of the following acts, committed by a party to the contract”
    —Triggertrap is clearly a party to the contract, so that’s not an issue.
    “… to induce [another party] to enter into the contract….”
    — Triggertrap wrote: “we also felt that we would be able to generate more PR and excitement around the Kickstarter project if we hit our goal faster, and if we raised a higher multiplier of our goal…” This would appear to satisfy the inducement requirement.
    “1. The suggestion, as a fact, of that which is not true, by one who does not believe it to be true….”
    — “Following our original budgets, we would be able to deliver the project if we had £100k or more … [o]ur backup plan was to cancel the project off Kickstarter if we raised under £100k”. Triggertrap listed the project as requiring £50k when it knew it couldn’t be built for under £100k. This is an admission of Triggertrap’s “suggestion, as a fact, of that which is not true, by one who does not believe it to be true”.
    California’s fraud statutes do not end there, however. Civil Code section 1573 makes certain acts legally fraudulent without requiring any intent to defraud.
    1573. Constructive fraud consists:
    1. In any breach of duty which, without an actually fraudulent intent, gains an advantage to the person in fault, or any one claiming under him, by misleading another to his prejudice, or to the prejudice of any one claiming under him; or,
    2. In any such act or omission as the law specially declares to be fraudulent, without respect to actual fraud.
    If Triggertrap is truly worried about its reputation, rather than make what (in my opinion) are implied threats of civil action for libel, it would instead provide properly audited financials backing up the various statements it has made, many of which, judging from the comments, have been difficult for some backers to accept as true.

    steve wood 6 days ago
    Haje, I’m curious how you would react to this hypothetical scenario:
    You walked into your favourite coffee shop, you are on first name terms with the Barista. You order your favourite brand of latte, maybe a little cake on the side.
    The Barista takes your order, and your money, gives you a receipt. He says he is going to the back to get your beans.
    Fifteen minutes later, you’re still standing at the counter. The Barista returns, and serves the next customer, ignoring you.
    You say you ordered a coffee, and the Barista says he hasn’t got your favourite beans, but gives you 20 pence from the till, but thanks you for your custom.
    You can see the cake you wanted on the display, but the Barista says you can’t have that either, even if you have a receipt for it.
    Would you be demanding your money back? After all, there was no certainty he had the beans in stock.
    Perhaps just a different perspective……

    Creator Triggertrap 6 days ago
    @Eric Holden
    “Haje you don’t get to choose the level of refund you give”
    We don’t choose the level of refund to give; as in – that 20% number is not conjured out of thin air. We are refunding the remaining money to our backers.
    Team Triggertrap

    Creator Triggertrap 6 days ago
    @Duncan Moffat
    “Maybe you should write another book about it.”
    Not a bad idea, there’s certainly a lot to be learned from this process. For now, we are trying to share what we’ve learned via blog posts, however.
    Team Triggertrap

    Mark Gamble 7 days ago
    Does anybody know the best way of attempting to get money back via CC?
    A straight forward purchase transaction is easy but not sure about this.
    As it stands I’d be happy if all parties shared the risk fairly ~ at the moment the backers are taking the lions share of the financial hit….

    Duncan Moffat 7 days ago
    @haje If you were truly sorry you would commit to refunding the other 80% of backers money if triggertrap ever make that kind of profit again.
    It seems kickstarter is pretty much the only platform were you can screw up this badly and still retain your company and position as CEO. Luckily for you, kickstarter seem to care as little for the backers as you do. Maybe you should write another book about it.

    Eric Bolden 7 days ago
    Haje you don’t get to choose the level of refund you give!! If you fail to deliver on a successful campaign you are required to give the product or a full refund! what part of that do you not understand or are you really that “STUPID”?

    Troy Jones 7 days ago
    A classic response..
    @triggertrap Why not? We need answers. Your FAQ does not answer my questions.

    Creator Triggertrap 7 days ago
    Dear commenters,
    We know it is frustrating that we failed to deliver on our kickstarter. As we’ve expressed again and again, we are very sorry, and we’re ashamed we’ve failed to deliver.
    We understand that some of you may not agree with some of our answers on the comment section here, but they are our answers nonetheless.
    We will not comment on staff who have left the company.
    We will not be issuing full refunds, and we’ve addressed this topic in our FAQ, here: http://tri.gg/faq-fullrefund. Instead, we will be refunding the remainder of the money.
    We will not continue to go in circles over these topics again and again. Please refer to our FAQ, which you can find here: http://tri.gg/adafaq.
    If you would like to claim your refund, please refer to the details in the e-mail we sent to our backers at the beginning of this month.
    If you haven’t received your e-mail, please contact us at hello@triggertrap.com, and we can get your refund processed as soon as possible.
    Thank you,
    Team Triggertrap

    Troy Jones 7 days ago
    So many unanswered questions. Anything difficult gets ignored I’m so sick how we are being treated. @triggertrap / Haje who are the incompetent contractors you used? Why exactly did CTO Matthew Kane leave halfway through this project to set up a new company? His exclamation of id rather not go into it but the decision was not taken lightly.. Is just not good enough. Why was our money used to hire new Triggertrap staff and finance your company? Can you provide us with a detailed itemised expenditure log of exactly what and how our money way spent on down to penny?
    I will not settle for anything less then a refund. A refund of all my money (A full refund)

    Manfred Winter 7 days ago
    @Creator: In no way you have answered all questions. You have stated your opinions, and ignored all others. You are permanently insulting our intelligence here. You seem to be backed by Kickstarter, although your actions are not covered by any other than a very wide-stretched interpretation of the Kickstarter Rules.
    Apart from that, you have not released a full audited financial statement to back up your ludicrous claims that you spent 80% of the backer’s money on nothing. If that were the case, why are you still on the helm? Any respectable company would get rid of such a loser at least now. I consider your actions fraudulent!

    Stephen Cottle 7 days ago
    Pieter Ithere was on comment that ended with “or else” after statwing hell be round the office to collect his money. Look under the comment of the last update

    Duncan Moffat 7 days ago
    @haje In reference to someone asking for a full refund you said; “I understand that this is what you, and a small minority of our other backers, would prefer as the outcome of this process.”
    Do you really believe this? Everybody wants a full refund. Nobody wants to pay you 80% of their pledge for the awful management you provided for this project. You really need to stop interpreting the lack of comments on your refund form as some kind of wholehearted approval of your actions. People aren’t commenting because they want nothing to do with you or your company anymore.
    Also, being massively overfunded does make the project considerably easier. It might not make it 6x easier, but you would have had at least 6x more “spare” money to spend on small revisions to the design (probably more because your cost of production for each unit will be lower). I still can’t believe you failed after you had a working prototype.
    The thing that particularly annoys me about your failure is how badly you underestimated the production costs. Presumably the screen, sensors and housing were largely unchanged from the original design so the board was the only new component. Were you estimating that each platinum kit was going to cost £100 to produce at the time you launched the funding campaign? Is there any way that this project could have ever succeeded?

    Pieter 7 days ago
    No problem, will do. Also, have you yet sought legal advise? Maybe you can provide their contact details as well for commentary. I’m just curious because reading that accusing you of fraud is a “serious allegation” does feel like an attack is the best defence type of comment. (A little bit like accusing backers of physically threats, did that happen or was it just a warning?) Interesting how you seem to get more agitated now, whilst the comments seem to get more balanced and less filled with the anger and disappointment they showed right after the news was brought to us.

    Creator Triggertrap 7 days ago
    @Manfred Winter
    Thank you for your comment.
    We believe we have comprehensively answered all your questions in our FAQ, which you can find here: http://tri.gg/adafaq, and in the comment section of our Kickstarter campaign, located here: http://tri.gg/adacomments.
    If you would like to claim your refund, please refer to the details in the e-mail we sent to our backers at the beginning of this month.
    If you haven’t received your e-mail, please contact us at hello@triggertrap.com, and we can get your refund processed as soon as possible.
    Thank you,
    Team Triggertrap

    Manfred Winter 7 days ago
    I did read all this arrogant dribble by the “Creator” again, and my position remains unchanged: I demand a full refund.
    I am unable to fill out the questionaire, as the options given are not acceptable.
    I also state that I am more than unhappy with the way Kickstarter is handling this debacle, and I will cancel my running pledges and refrain from further pledges unless Kickstarter takes at least some responsibility and helps us backers to fight this obvious fraud!

    Creator Triggertrap 7 days ago
    OTHER HIGH SPEED TRIGGERS
    We’re really disappointed that Triggertrap Ada won’t be shipping, but we realise that you may still want to do high-speed photography. We’ve collected some alternatives here: http://tri.gg/ada-alternatives
    Thank you,
    Team Triggertrap

    Creator Triggertrap 7 days ago
    @pieter
    “I have a very busy week, but am trying to get some attention for this from people working for mainstream media”
    When you do speak to the mainstream media, they will want a comment from us in the process. In that case, please refer them to hello@triggertrap.com and we’ll get back to them as soon as possible.

    Creator Triggertrap 7 days ago
    ON ALLEGATIONS OF FRAUD
    To everyone mentioning or outright accusing us of ‘fraud’, whether here in the comments, or in other public medium – that is a very, very serious allegation indeed.
    If you genuinely believe that actual criminal activity has taken place in the course or the aftermath of this Kickstarter project, I will be the first to tell you that that is simply not the case. However, this is not the right forum for such discussions. If you believe we have committed fraud, please go through the correct channels so there can be an investigation, and we can clear our name. If not, then stop speculating (and committing libel in the process).
    Haje Jan Kamps
    CEO, Triggertrap

    Creator Triggertrap 7 days ago
    @David Lewinsohn
    “1. Yes, we understand how Kickstarter works.” / “2. Yes, we realise that occasionally projects can go wrong.”
    If you did, I don’t believe we would be having this discussion.
    Team Triggertrap / Haje

    Creator Triggertrap 7 days ago
    @David Lewinsohn
    “3. Yes, we understand that if a project doesn’t reach its funding level required to go into production, it fails and the money pledged is not charged to the Backers.”
    That didn’t happen, and is not relevant here.
    Team Triggertrap / Haje

    Creator Triggertrap 7 days ago
    @David Lewinsohn
    “4. Yes, we understand that if a project is fully funded, it is reasonable to expect the goods offered will be delivered.”
    Yes, with certain caveats, as outlined in http://tri.gg/ks-trust and elsewhere on this site.
    Team Triggertrap / Haje

    Creator Triggertrap 7 days ago
    @David Lewinsohn
    “5. Yes, we understand that if a project is oversubscribed to more than 5 times what the project owners stated as needed to go into production, it should guarantee a successful production run.”
    I’m afraid that what you think *should* happen is not necessarily how Kickstarter works. Being 5 times oversubscribed does not make a project 5 times easier.
    Or, put differently, just like 3 women can’t make a baby in 3 months, five times the funding does not make a project five times faster, easier, or smoother.
    And regardless, there is no guarantee – even for a project like Pebble Time, which is currently 34x oversubscribed, there is no implied or express guarantee that they will hit their delivery deadlines, or even deliver at all. If you want such a guarantee, pre-order the product, or buy it from a store.
    Team Triggertrap / Haje

    Creator Triggertrap 7 days ago
    @David Lewinsohn
    “6. Yes, we understand that it is in everyone’s interest for the project owners to keep the backers fully informed.”
    Absolutely. I think we did our best here, but in retrospect, our best was clearly not good enough. If we were to do another Kickstarter campaign (which I strongly doubt we would), we would make significant changes to how we keep backers in the loop.
    Team Triggertrap / Haje

    Creator Triggertrap 7 days ago
    @David Lewinsohn
    “7. Yes, we understand that if a project is having difficulties, the creators are obligated to advise the backers at the earliest opportunity and give them full disclosure of all problems and potential solutions.” / “8. Yes, we understand it is in everyone’s interest for the project owners to be total honest with their backers.”
    I don’t believe we haven’t been honest, but I do think we may have fallen for the temptation to exagerrate our wins and downplay our challenges: We were so excited about bringing this project to market that we didn’t highlight all of the issues we’ve run into throughout the process.
    Having said that, as I’m sure you’re aware, there are many minor pitfalls in project management – sometimes, they go away by themselves. Sometimes what seems like a serious problem turns out to be a minor problem, and sometimes, what seems trivial is an enormous blocker of an issue. We haven’t been good enough at keeping track of when problems escalate, and we didn’t have enough control over what would trigger a backer update, and what didn’t.
    Team Triggertrap / Haje

    Creator Triggertrap 7 days ago
    @David Lewinsohn
    “9. How can you tell us in December 2014 that Adas will be shipped to us in May 2015 and just weeks later tell your backers that Ada will never be. You have failed. There is not enough in your bank account to pay for the production of these Adas.”
    In December 2014, our Gantt chart was showing that we finally hit a major milestone: We had a final production hardware protottype, with final production plastics, and the final software. We were insanely excited by this, and decided to tell our backers as soon as possible.
    What we didn’t have in place at that point, was a full overview over exactly what it was going to cost, nor how much money we had spent to get to that major milestone.
    If everything had gone smoothly from December 2014 onwards, we would have been able to ship by May. However, when we received the quotes and started planning the project’s financials for the remainder of the project in Mid January, we realised we had a huge problem. We tried for a month to resolve this, and had some really promising leads for a long time. When none of them came through, we decided to cancel the project in February, and instead tried to figure out what options we should give our backers. The four options we settled on are presented in the e-mail you received in the beginning of this month.
    Once we decided to cancel, we decided to do so finally and abruptly, in order to try to avoid creating false hope along the way.
    Team Triggertrap / Haje

    Creator Triggertrap 7 days ago
    @David Lewinsohn
    “10. Yes, we understand that we are not investors and therefore we do not share in the profits made from the sales of in this case Triggertrap Ada product.”
    Correct.
    Team Triggertrap / Haje

    Creator Triggertrap 7 days ago
    @David Lewinsohn
    “11. Yes, we know Kickstarter’s Terms of Use active at the time of your project is still legally enforceable and relevant to this project.” / “12. If you have lost it, here is the link to refresh your memory.
    https://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use/oct2012“; / “13. Yes, we know the Terms of Use in force today are not relevant to your project, and you cannot use them to wriggle out of your legal responsibility.”
    Also all correct.
    Team Triggertrap / Haje

    Creator Triggertrap 7 days ago
    @David Lewinsohn
    “14. Yes, we know that Kickstarter has changed its Terms of Use. We also know it is to try and protect the project creators to the detriment of the backers of these projects.”
    I disagree. My personal opinion is that the new ToS of Kickstarter are essentially the same as the old ones, except written in a more human-readable (rather than lawyer-readable) form. Even if you were to disagree with this point, I’m sure you’ll agree that the new ToS is a lot more approachable for a larger proportion of people who might need to refer to it.
    Either way, it’s a moot point, as we’ve agreed that the older ToS applies.
    Team Triggertrap / Haje

    Creator Triggertrap 7 days ago
    @David Lewinsohn
    “15. Could it be that Kickstarter’s request for help is brought about by the financial failure of the Triggertrap Ada project?”
    I don’t know what you are referring to.
    Team Triggertrap / Haje

    Creator Triggertrap 7 days ago
    @David Lewinsohn
    “16. The outcome of the Triggertrap Ada failed project will have irreparably damaged Kickstarter’s reputation in the “crowd-funding” arena. I do not know if it can recover from this regrettable situation.”
    Kickstarter is a huge platform, with 8.1 million backers. Whilst I’m sure Kickstarter is delighted to hear that you are worried about their well-being,
    Triggertrap’s backers represent 0.00002% of all Kickstarter backers. In addition, the platform has proven resilient to much larger failures than Triggertrap’s, precisely because the platform is designed to enable project creators to take big risks on projects that wouldn’t otherwise have seen the light of day.
    I’ll pass on your words of concern, but I think they’ll be fine.
    Team Triggertrap / Haje

    Creator Triggertrap 7 days ago
    @David Lewinsohn
    “17. Yes, this situation is regrettable for all concerned, but it can have a just and fair outcome.”
    I agree, and that is why we are offering a 20% refund, or a 50% shop credit in our shop.
    Team Triggertrap / Haje

    Creator Triggertrap 7 days ago
    @David Lewinsohn
    “Your offer of 20% refund or 50% Triggertrap store credit puts the entire financial burden on your backers.”
    That is not the case, as explained here: http://tri.gg/faq-adarisk
    Team Triggertrap / Haje

    Creator Triggertrap 7 days ago
    @David Lewinsohn
    “All your answers in your FAQs are worded to avoid your clear legal responsibilities.” / “I do see someone trying to use whatever means possible to avoid your clear and full legal responsibilities to your backers.”
    We take our legal responsibilities very seriously, but we disagree with your interpretation of the Terms of Service. If you feel that this is incorrect, that is unfortunate, but so far, nobody has convinced us that we are not doing the right thing in refunding as much of the money as is remaining from the Kickstarter fund.
    Team Triggertrap / Haje

    Creator Triggertrap 7 days ago
    @David Lewinsohn
    “In summary Haje, to make this very clear, I and all the other backers are legally entitled to a full refund.”
    I understand that this is what you, and a small minority of our other backers, would prefer as the outcome of this process.
    However, this is not what you are legally entitled to. You are entitled to a refund of the remainder of the money, and that is what we are offering.
    To claim your refund, please click on the link in the e-mail we sent to you. If you didn’t receive this e-mail, please contact us on hello@triggertrap.com and we’d be happy to send out a copy of the e-mail and the link you need.
    All the best,
    Team Triggertrap / Haje

    Creator Triggertrap 7 days ago
    @Raul Sanchez Jr
    “I want a FULL refund”
    We’ve addressed this topic in our FAQ, here: http://tri.gg/faq-fullrefund
    Team Triggertrap

    Creator Triggertrap 7 days ago
    @Simon Ho
    “I need a detailed breakdown of the project expense from TT.”
    We provided a breakdown in our backer update. Whilst it would be possible to provide a more detailed breakdown, we won’t do this unless we can find a way to get an audited report prepared. So far, this is proving to be prohibitively expensive, but I’m still trying to find a way to make that happen.
    Team Triggertrap / Haje

    Creator Triggertrap 7 days ago
    @Simon Ho
    “I don’t accept your 20% refund offering.”
    In that case, please go for the 50% shop credit option. The options presented in the e-mail we sent out are the options we have available.
    Team Triggertrap

    Pieter 7 days ago
    Thank you David for reiterating and collating everything in this manner. I have a very busy week, but am trying to get some attention for this from people working for mainstream media. I think both Triggertrap and Kickstarter hope that by downplaying our sincere concerns they can create an atmosphere of “those wingers”, but for some odd reason I think this can really be a very serious concern for both parties of not resolved appropriately. I said this before, I honestly think it’s a very significant episode in Kickstarter’s history and could very well mean they have to take a very different approach from now on.

    David Lewinsohn 7 days ago
    @Triggertrap / Haje
    Firstly thank you for reading my post and replying to it. I respectfully disagree with your conclusion that because “more than half of the Backers have responded” and opted for one of the only 4 options available, they are satisfied with what they have chosen.
    Haje, please don’t treat us like we do not understand what is going on:
    1. Yes, we understand how Kickstarter works.
    2. Yes, we realise that occasionally projects can go wrong.
    3. Yes, we understand that if a project doesn’t reach its funding level required to go into production, it fails and the money pledged is not charged to the Backers.
    4. Yes, we understand that if a project is fully funded, it is reasonable to expect the goods offered will be delivered.
    5. Yes, we understand that if a project is oversubscribed to more than 5 times what the project owners stated as needed to go into production, it should guarantee a successful production run.
    6. Yes, we understand that it is in everyone’s interest for the project owners to keep the backers fully informed.
    7. Yes, we understand that if a project is having difficulties, the creators are obligated to advise the backers at the earliest opportunity and give them full disclosure of all problems and potential solutions.
    8. Yes, we understand it is in everyone’s interest for the project owners to be total honest with their backers.
    9. How can you tell us in December 2014 that Adas will be shipped to us in May 2015 and just weeks later tell your backers that Ada will never be. You have failed. There is not enough in your bank account to pay for the production of these Adas.
    10. Yes, we understand that we are not investors and therefore we do not share in the profits made from the sales of in this case Triggertrap Ada product.
    11. Yes, we know Kickstarter’s Terms of Use active at the time of your project is still legally enforceable and relevant to this project.
    12. If you have lost it, here is the link to refresh your memory.
    https://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use/oct2012
    13. Yes, we know the Terms of Use in force today are not relevant to your project, and you cannot use them to wriggle out of your legal responsibility.
    14. Yes, we know that Kickstarter has changed its Terms of Use. We also know it is to try and protect the project creators to the detriment of the backers of these projects.
    15. Could it be that Kickstarter’s request for help is brought about by the financial failure of the Triggertrap Ada project?
    16. The outcome of the Triggertrap Ada failed project will have irreparably damaged Kickstarter’s reputation in the “crowd-funding” arena. I do not know if it can recover from this regrettable situation.
    17. Yes, this situation is regrettable for all concerned, but it can have a just and fair outcome.
    All the backers of this project put their faith and trust in you and your company. We accepted delay after delay because we were fed colourful pictures to distract us from the truth of the matter. When you asked for help with the code, the backers able to help came willingly forward and made very positive contributions.
    It is said “Ignorance is bliss”. You clearly misrepresented the truth to your backers. You had an opportunity to bring them “on side” and get them to willing go the “extra mile”, but sadly you chose to hide the reality of this project.
    We, the backers, are not asking for 1 penny more than we are legally entitled.
    We are not asking for any compensation arising from the delay of 17 months where you had the use of our money.
    Your offer of 20% refund or 50% Triggertrap store credit puts the entire financial burden on your backers.
    Previously you stated that you and your company lost time devoted to Ada when it could have been working on other more financially profitable ventures. You everyone in your company was fully compensated for their time and effort put into this project.
    Sadly, I do not see any sincere humility in any the communications issued from Triggertrap / Haje. All your answers in your FAQs are worded to avoid your clear legal responsibilities.
    I do see someone trying to use whatever means possible to avoid your clear and full legal responsibilities to your backers.
    You have gone on record to apologise and accept the responsibility for the gross mismanagement of this project. We do not want to see your company fold and your staff retrenched. It is in your hands to make amends. Please make the right choices.
    In summary Haje, to make this very clear, I and all the other backers are legally entitled to a full refund and that is what we want. Nothing more and nothing less.
    Thank you for taking the time to read my reply to you.

    Adam Hauldren on March 10
    @Haje: “I’m afraid this means that you don’t have visibility over our support infrastructure and volume of support. On a normal month, we have around 1,000 e-mails from people wanting to show off what they’ve created, who have feature suggestions, or who have run into a problem”
    Well obviously I don’t have access to your mail system, and as such can only take your word for the volume of support enquiries you deal with, although 30 per day every day seems somewhat high for a product that is not exactly complex (I have been a mobile dongle owner for a long time now)
    Using the fact that “others want to show off what they’ve created” doesn’t cut it for me, I’m afraid – it isn’t support, it’s using people desperate need for public acknowledgement (which they could achieve through FB, or any other social media outlet) as free marketing for your existing product range.
    So you know – I don’t have a problem with that, but in light of my original (polite and restrained) comment, please don’t label it as “support”.
    As for feature suggestions – I haven’t seen any new features in the Mobile Dongle app (on Android) for a long while now, although I accept you may have had your hands full with the Ada project (and subsequent backlash).

    ndnihil on March 10
    Obvious play for sympathy to distract those who have been swindled. Back to the matter at hand, you owe me 190GBP Haje.

    Eric Bolden on March 10
    I think he is just posturing, making false claims of threats and him prosecuting us, kind of pathetic! HAJE you are a thief and possibly a con man and are a fool if you think you will get away with it!

    Pieter on March 10
    If anyone has actually made physical threats that is obviously completely out of order, but did it already happen or are you just putting out a warning? “Should this happen, I will contact the police, and prosecute to the full extent of the law.”

    Raul Sanchez Jr on March 10
    I pledged Triggertrap 190GBP.
    I want a FULL refund, as per the Terms applicable at the time of backing this project:
    Project Creators are required to fulfill all rewards of their successful fundraising campaigns or refund any Backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill.

    Raul Sanchez Jr on March 10
    I to pledged Triggertrap 190GBP.
    I want a FULL refund, as per the Terms applicable at the time of backing this project on Kickstarter.

    Peter Heide on March 10
    @Haje: “If you draw your conclusions from this comment thread, it’s possible that you might be correct. However, we have received a large number of e-mails and more than half our backers have filled in the Refunds & Feedback Form. We’re going through and reading all the comments as they come in, and we note that only a very small minority of our backers are unhappy about the options that were presented.”
    Don’t interpret silence for satisfaction. I filled out your refund response form, and chose not to provide a comment. At the same time, I think the way you’ve handled this situation is awful. I suspect others feel as I do, but have not commented about it here or elsewhere.
    As with your reading of the Kickstarter TOS applicable to this project, you seem to be choosing an interpretation that is most generous and beneficial to you, even if doing so defies common sense.

    Amir Soltani on March 10
    @Gary, I totally agree, We need the detail behind TT company and whether there is a fraud here… how does a company managed to fool their backers with loads of juicy full-colour emails and then exactly after it is too late to easily charge back from bank they pull the plug. If that is not premeditated what is?
    Kickstarter is desperately hiring a smart QC officer so they can precisely deal with the rise of scam projects that looks too good to be true, or they take the easy (failed) route out.
    BTW what about all of the other preorders that you’re taking, are they dissolved. you are selling the goods on http://shop.triggertrap.com/

    Simon Ho on March 10
    I need a detailed breakdown of the project expense from TT. And I don’t accept your 20% refund offering.

    Christopher Seaton on March 10
    I know you didn’t, I was thinking more that they were the lucky ones who ‘dodged a bullet’ so to speak. The relevance is the fact that you previously considered 3% for 100k, something suggested as an alternative refund by another backer earlier. Don’t get me wrong, it would be too difficult to administer. I just feel that having seen that video back when you did seek funds via Seeded, it now feels like we were deceived along the way. The project failed, for whatever reason, but so too did the damage limitation. I would have felt some empathy if a) you’d been more honest, b) you’d made a credible offer that placed some actual financial burden on TT, c) you weren’t so confrontational in your recent efforts. You don’t seem to grasp why people are annoyed, which, for me at least, is the biggest problem.

    Paul Brown on March 10
    @Haje – I am 100% with you and TT staff on this. Threats are unacceptable full stop.

    Gary Shuster on March 10
    Contacting the police is a great idea. They can investigate the allegations of backer threats and the allegations of Triggertrap fraud. Neither one is acceptable, and I would encourage law enforcement to prosecute wrongdoing to the full extent of the law.

    Creator Triggertrap on March 10
    PHYSICAL THREATS
    Hey folks.
    I am really sorry that I have to write this comment, but we’ve had a few episodes via e-mail and here in the comments.
    Don’t get me wrong: I understand that you guys are disappointed that our project failed, and and you may further disagree with how we have decided to deal with the fall-out.
    However, let me be absolutely, 100% clear about this: I will not, under any circumstances, tolerate ANY threats to me or my staff. Should this happen, I will contact the police, and prosecute to the full extent of the law.
    There are appropriate ways of dealing with a failing Kickstarter campaign. Threats of causing physical harm is absolutely off the table.
    Respectfully,
    Haje Jan Kamps
    CEO, Triggertrap

    Creator Triggertrap on March 10
    BACKERKIT
    If, after the Kickstarter project finished, you pledged original funds via Backerkit, don’t worry – we never charged these payments. More details: http://tri.gg/faq-adabackerkit
    Thank you,
    Team Triggertrap

    Creator Triggertrap on March 10
    DONGLE BACKER REWARDS
    Some of you asked why we chose not to send out the dongles and mobile kits that were part of some of the backer levels. We’ve addressed this issue here: http://tri.gg/faq-adadongles
    Thank you,
    Team Triggertrap

    Creator Triggertrap on March 10
    @Christopher Seaton
    “what do those who invested in you on Seedrs think of your failure?”
    That is not relevant to this Kickstarter campaign. We did not end up taking any investment from the Seedrs campaign.
    Team Triggertrap

    Creator Triggertrap on March 10
    @Rob White
    “don’t be under the misapprehension that the people who’ve have taken up your refund offer are SATISFIED with it. ”
    That was not what we were referring to; whether people are satisfied or not depends on the comments they added to the form.
    Team Triggertrap

    Gary Shuster on March 10
    TT says “if there should be a hail mary, and someone does want to try to take over the production of Ada for us, we would obviously only allow that to happen if our backers get their backer rewards after all”. Either they don’t understand how open source works or they are intentionally lying.
    If they open source the hardware designs and the software, anybody could build these and TT CANNOT require anybody to provide backer rewards. A good lawyer (which they’ll need quite a few of anyhow) could craft a quasi-public license that would make their statement true, something that makes it open source only for production runs of fewer than 5 devices and not for resale, unless and until backer rewards are provided. But an off-the-shelf open source licensing agreement permitting commercial use is entirely incompatible with retaining any ability to require a third party that builds the Ada to provide backer rewards.
    Please retain a good lawyer, TT. You’re not only begging to be sued (wishes will come true in that regard), but you’re going to screw up a promise you made just hours ago if you don’t get the licensing right.

    Christopher Seaton on March 10
    Question for TT: what do those who invested in you on Seedrs think of your failure? Also, just how accurate was your sales pitch for that? Not very, IMHO. https://vimeo.com/85874863

    Stephen Cottle on March 10
    “We meant that we intend to use the prototypes for ad hoc photography projects (i.e. at events, or to test certain aspects of other products we create). In addition, it could be useful to show what we’ve done at Ada in discussions with designers, electronics developers, and anythign else. ”
    whats the point you go to an event and show off something you cant sell!! – someone goes up to your stool and go wow what a nice bit of kit where cani buy one!! your reply!! – you cant because we screwed up and we not producing it – we’re just showing what a waste of 1/4 million points looks like??
    and as for testing things with it again whats the point – wow this new item were making works great with the Ada, but alas no point as we cant sell it because they customer wont have the Ada for it to work with.

    Rob White on March 9
    @TT don’t be under the misapprehension that the people who’ve have taken up your refund offer are SATISFIED with it.
    Most just want something back rather than nothing. Its damage limitation, NOT satisfaction.

    Amir Soltani on March 9
    @pieter, good idea thanks, I’ve signed up to http://goo.gl/forms/IH59Wiabxx . Let’s stand up to TT’s calculated escape.
    Also please report this to Kickstarter now at the bottom of the main page https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/triggertrap/triggertrap-redsnap-modular-camera-trigger#

    Pieter on March 9
    http://goo.gl/forms/IH59Wiabxx (Just thinking it might be good to collate some information in order to organise possible legal action somewhat better, no pressure!, just a thought.)

    Creator Triggertrap on March 9
    For those of you asking about full refunds, please see this FAQ: https://triggertrap.reamaze.com/kb/triggertrap-redsnap/faq-how-come-i-can-t-have-a-full-refund
    Team Triggertrap

    Creator Triggertrap on March 9
    @Richard & @pieter & Peter Hemming
    Over half of our backers have made ther options preference known, an only a very small percentage of them have expressed that they are unhappy with the options we’ve presented.
    I’m sorry that you are unhappy with the options we’ve made available, but unfortunately these are the options we have, and we’re not prepared to add additional options at this point.
    Please ensure that you fill in the form as soon as possible – but at least by March 31st – so we can process your refunds as quickly as possible.
    Team Triggertrap / Haje

    Creator Triggertrap on March 9
    @Dan McColl
    “The money was paid for a pre-purchase of a piece of hardware. This was not delivered so the funds need to be returned.”
    Kickstarter is not a pre-purchase platform, and Triggertrap Ada was not a pre-order.
    We’ve answered in more detail why we cannot offer a full refund in this FAQ: https://triggertrap.reamaze.com/kb/triggertrap-redsnap/faq-how-come-i-can-t-have-a-full-refund
    Team Triggertrap / Haje

    Creator Triggertrap on March 9
    @Adam Hauldren
    “Using the existing TT-mobile customer base as a reason to short-change KS backers is not acceptable, especially since the existing customer base requires very little support”
    I’m afraid this means that you don’t have visibility over our support infrastructure and volume of support. On a normal month, we have around 1,000 e-mails from people wanting to show off what they’ve created, who have feature suggestions, or who have run into a problem.
    Team Triggertrap / Haje

    Creator Triggertrap on March 9
    @David Lewinsohn
    “I am one of the majorities of unhappy backers”
    If you draw your conclusions from this comment thread, it’s possible that you might be correct. However, we have received a large number of e-mails and more than half our backers have filled in the Refunds & Feedback Form. We’re going through and reading all the comments as they come in, and we note that only a very small minority of our backers are unhappy about the options that were presented.
    The majority of our backers understand how Kickstarter works, and realise that occasionally, projects can go wrong (as Kickstarter points out http://tri.gg/kst). Kickstarter do go out of their way to try to make backers aware of the risks in backing a project – if you feel they could do a better job with that, they are actively soliciting suggestions for how to do that, on support@kickstarter.com.
    I’m relly sorry we’ve let you down, and that we failed to deliver on Triggertrap Ada.
    Team Triggertrap / Haje

    Creator Triggertrap on March 9
    @pieter
    “Why don’t you write a couple of more articles about perfect storms and how great it is to fail”
    Failure isn’t great. Failure is horrible, painful, and profoundly depressing.
    But not going out of our way to learn from failure would be an even graver sin than failing in the first place. That is why we are trying to dig into what happened – both to help us learn from where we went wrong, and to try to help others avoid making the same mistakes we did.
    Team Triggertrap / Haje

    Creator Triggertrap on March 9
    @Jesus Haces
    “Any timeframe on the releasing of the open source and the 3d models? At least we’ll be able to print/solder/program our own”
    We’re aiming for by the end of the month – the source code will probably be available sooner than that, but we’ll keep you posted.
    Team Triggertrap

    Creator Triggertrap on March 9
    For the people who say we should destroy the prototypes, and
    @Stephen Cottle
    “You say arent bringing it to the market but you have said about using it for future plans, to me that the same.”
    We’re sorry if we weren’t clear – We meant that we intend to use the prototypes for ad hoc photography projects (i.e. at events, or to test certain aspects of other products we create). In addition, it could be useful to show what we’ve done at Ada in discussions with designers, electronics developers, and anythign else.
    Also, if there should be a hail mary, and someone does want to try to take over the production of Ada for us, we would obviously only allow that to happen if our backers get their backer rewards after all – but at that point it would be extremely helpful to have a working prototype, to better show what our plans were for the product etc.
    Team Triggertrap / Haje

    Creator Triggertrap on March 9
    @Ed Catlett
    “And not a single Euro poorer. You took NO risks.”
    We have addressed this in our FAQ here: https://triggertrap.reamaze.com/kb/triggertrap-redsnap/faq-why-is-triggertrap-not-shouldering-any-of-the-risk
    Team Triggertrap

    Creator Triggertrap on March 9
    @Joe Reynolds
    “could you just clarify if you’ve made any attempt to recoup some of the value that lies within the R&D and any other existing remnants of the ADA project by selling them”
    We did make some attempts and had some discussions with several major actors in this field. So far, we have been unsuccessful, but we will continue to try.
    Team Triggertrap

    Creator Triggertrap on March 9
    @pieter
    “You willingly have done this, or you are truly not very smart to begin with.”
    If those are the two options I have available to me, Pieter, I have to admit to the latter. Hardware projects are incredibly hard; please see my two Medium posts explaining what happened.
    Also, you do seem to know a lot about the processes and potential pitfalls. Once we’ve handled our outstanding issues with our Kickstarter backers, I’d love to pick your brain about how you would have delivered this project.
    Haje Jan Kamps
    CEO, Triggertrap

    Amir Soltani on March 9
    This is a big Kickstarter fail, and TT should not exist after this. No one should be fooled by this and accept their stupid gesture. A company who rips their backers off first doesn’t have integrity and should not be in business.
    Anyone in UK should takje these guys to small claim court it is easy and That is the first thing I do when there is no refund.
    What’s makes this so painful is all the nonsense spam that we received from them, it’s all calculated, they wanted this to prolong so no one bother with refund. I recommend everyone to post on twitter, facebook, what a rubbish failure these company is.

    Mark Gamble on March 9
    I also pledged £190 and want a full refund ~ Will try to get a chargeback from my CC company…

    Paul Massey on March 9
    I pledged Triggertrap 190GBP.
    I want a FULL refund, as per the Terms applicable at the time of backing this project:
    Project Creators are required to fulfill all rewards of their successful fundraising campaigns or refund any Backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill.

    Thomas Stoll on March 9
    @David: I got the eMail on 15.11.2013 saying it was collected on the card.
    I totaly agree to your comment from yesterday about the 5% commission

    Richard J R Fletcher on March 9
    @pieter. It is now a week since the email dropped into our inboxes. I have reflected on the past week and comments left. I agree there is a clear aim to suggest KK is a donation/reward setup. However, if that is the case then we donated to TT to develop the Ada, it was not in our control how they did that but indeed they have reported that the development was succesful. Therefore, if the donation/reward system is in play then TT have thier part of the deal. In that respect either TT make the product as the reward (there should really never have been any profit in this funding route) or TT accept it cannot be made for commercial reasons and then simply pay back the development cost in full absorbing it in to the business with the aquired IP. Whether, the KK Terms of Use support a donation/reward system or not is irrelevent as they support the above regardless. I have read some mention the declaration of a shipping date absolves KK but I haven’t swwn the reasoning for this. Conversely the declartion of a shipping date is in my view forms part of the dynamic contract between backers and TT. Therefore declaring a shipping date and not delivering is im view a futher breach of the contract.

    Pieter on March 9
    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Triggertrap-Ada-Kickstarter/346294162228420

    Pieter on March 9
    “To be perfectly frank, after reading the goings on here, and the deceit from TT I’d like to take part in a Class action with the end game to wind up TT as they are obviously trading insolvent if they can’t meet their debts.” I am also in Australia and see many Australians are amongst the backers, what options do we have? I am also at the point where I am more than willing to put some extra effort in to at least not let them completely get away with it and point out that at the time other t&c’s applied, Kickstarter in the meantime has changed these quite significantly but that shouldn’t affect what we signed up for back then. There seems to be this strange idea going around that we are part of some sort of “donation model”, which is total nonsense when you read those terms and conditions. Anyway, lets see if we can connect and what we possibly can do from Australia.

    Stefan Bauer on March 9
    I pledged £150 and do not accept ridiculous 20% back – FULL REFUND PLEASE!!!

    Dan McColl on March 9
    I just spoke to my bank, Unfortunately they’ve told me that a chargeback is not possible due to the time frame involved.
    I also opted for the top kit. 190GBP (Approx $400 aud). I’d like a full and complete refund as per the terms and conditions of making the agreement.
    The money was paid for a pre-purchase of a piece of hardware. This was not delivered so the funds need to be returned.
    I certainly am not interested in funding TT’s trips abroad and nights in the pub drinking beer. I’m also not interested in funding the R&D on an open source project. I’m also not interested in funding the R&D for TT to have all the data available for a future project (or one of their associates, looking at you, Vela)
    To be perfectly frank, after reading the goings on here, and the deceit from TT I’d like to take part in a Class action with the end game to wind up TT as they are obviously trading insolvent if they can’t meet their debts.

    Adam Hauldren on March 9
    I backed the project on the 19th October to the tune of AU$336.19 and have just lodged a query with my bank as to the possibility of a chargeback on my credit card. I am, however, not entirely hopeful of a positive response, given the delays since the charge was made (nearly 17 months ago).
    I’ve tried to be understanding of TTs position in the matter, but agree that the costs arising from mismanagement of the project should not be passed onto the backers. If I was to raise venture capital for a failed project, I would still be expected to pay the sum back to my investors, even if that produced financial hardships for myself.
    Using the existing TT-mobile customer base as a reason to short-change KS backers is not acceptable, especially since the existing customer base requires very little support, and the app (on android at least) has not been updated for nearly 5 months.
    I continue to be very interested in where this will lead for us all, and will update as soon as I hear back from my bank re. the CC refund possibility.

    Gene Caldwell… iPocketIntelligence on March 9
    SAD… you raised 580% of your project and you offer a small portion in store credit for an unknown future price. I look to participating in a class action suit against you.
    PS… where is your respect, consideration, honesty and due dillegence to get your numbers correct.

    Amir Soltani on March 9
    Full refund please… Don’t be fooled to this BS. Lets take them to court in UK!

    Jost Jahn on March 9
    I think this is a worst case for both: Triggertrap and Kickstarter.
    No one will buy in future anything from Triggertrap, who lost this money in this Kickstarter campaign and everybody of us will tell other people about this.
    And I for myself will not support any other Kickstarter project anymore (and I supported some).
    I also have lost small amounts at Kickstarter but not at a company which say: sorry, we burn your money and that’s it. Triggertrap must pay back the refund and account the costs into their books. Or they can offer us to get 100% refund at tehir shop for this amount of money, so that we have a value in our hands. That would be acceptable.
    I think, if Kickstarter pay not back or say Triggertrap, that this is not the correct way then many of use will no more use Kickstarter.

    Peter Hemming on March 9
    Just received the ‘Reminder: Kickstarter Refund Options for Triggertrap Ada’. No acceptable option is offered…….and no comment can be made without selecting an option……how arrogant is that? I want a FULL refund in accordance with the terms applicable at the time of my backing of this project.

    David Lewinsohn on March 9
    Typo. Credit Card

    David Lewinsohn on March 9
    I have tried to check the exact date my Credit Care was debited 190GBP. Can I please have feedback advising the date that your card was debited. I will then use the most common date as the most likely one.
    I live in Australia and I used Diner’s Club credit card. I hope that assists.
    Thank you in advance.
    David

    Eric Bolden on March 9
    @Paul Brown…..If we were looking for an alternative project to spend yet more money, that would be great! But your constant re-posts spamming us with your sales pitch is HIGHLY INAPPROPRIATE!!! KINDLY STOP

    Paul Brown on March 9
    This comment has been removed by Kickstarter.

    Nicholas Perks on March 9
    The 20% refund (or 50% credit, which is probably worth even less) is definitely not acceptable. I backed at £190 (over $400 CAD at the time), and I’m calling for a full refund as well! Kickstarter is a FUNDING platform. Sometimes it covers the whole project, other times it doesn’t, but backers can’t be the only ones carrying the risk and costs in the process. Triggertrap’s failure to manage the project correctly is their responsibility, not the backers.

    Jamie Homes on March 9
    I pledged Triggertrap 190GBP.
    I want a FULL refund, as per the Terms applicable at the time of backing this project.

    Andreas on March 9
    This comment has been removed by Kickstarter.

    Charles Clee on March 8
    It is fascinating to see how this is developing. So have I got it right that KS feels its role is reduced as TT named a shipping date? So how much collision was between to TT and KS to manage the system to effectively limit their liabilities? The bit that bugs me is that KS was designed to help start ups and budding entrepreneurs, not to help limited companies limit their R&D risk by giving them access to ring fenced finance that they can blow with impunity. I come back to the issue of disclosure. What communications were their with KS and TT over this, when did TT wake up and realise that this project was unlikely to deliver, can they demonstrate that they acted in good faith, and are they formally assessed as incompetent or fraudulent. I think we should demand from KS full disclosure of all communications between it and TT, as well as any internal communications relating to it. Anyone understand how to do this?

    Raul Sanchez Jr on March 8
    I to pledged Triggertrap 190GBP.
    I want a FULL refund, as per the Terms applicable at the time of backing this project on Kickstarter.

    VHF on March 8
    @Richard – cheers for that.

    Rene S Jensen on March 8
    I pledged Triggertrap 190GBP.
    I want a FULL refund, as per the Terms applicable at the time of backing this project.

    David Lewinsohn on March 8
    I am one of the majorities of unhappy backers here that funded Triggertrap the full 190GBP. I really want what they were originally offering, the fully working Ada with all the trimmings.
    As this is now not practical, I want a FULL refund, as per the Terms applicable at the time of backing this project.
    We are not investors.
    We will not share in the profits generated by the sale of Adas world wide.
    We are simple supporters willing to pre-order a product and wait a reasonable time for delivery.
    As stated, we now know this will not happen and I am thoroughly “gutted” by the persistent position of the CEO of Triggertrap AND Kickstarter that we are not legally entitled to a full refund.
    The fact that we were misled while hundreds of thousands of GBP was just wasted and Triggertrap / Haje Jan Kamps / Kickstarter are not liable to share any loss is beyond me.
    These guys should be held to account for their dishonesty, incompetence and failure to take accountability.
    Kickstarter should understand that it is on notice to act on behalf of its users. If not, I along with all the 2,000 odd unhappy backers will be spreading the sad and unsatisfactory experience to all their large, international circle of friends.
    Kickstarter please understand, this will not just “go away”. You cannot put your head in the sand. By taking a 5% commission, you are a legally liable party to this unsatisfactory experience.
    The quicker you realise this and act accordingly, the stronger your case for survival. This is a statement of fact.

    Minning Xiang on March 8
    My bank just accepted my chargeback claim, now I’m waiting for their decision.

    Richard J R Fletcher on March 8
    https://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use/oct2012
    Link to relevent terms of use for projects before Oct 2014.

    VHF on March 8
    @Richard. I also went in at £90 and paid on credit card – I’m planning to call them on Monday to see if I can get a chargeback based on the evidence @Minning has kindly said he was successful with. Where does one get hold of the old TOS?

    Richard J R Fletcher on March 8
    @Minning, as I went in for £90 I am under the section 75 value.
    However, as I paid with my creditcard I will now seek a chargeback using the evidence in the TOS and the updates.
    Ultimately, KK clearly have washed thier hands of this and as pointed out TT agreed a final absolute shipping date so effectively agreed to supply on that date. However, now they won’t and they aren’t offering a full refund. I wonder if the absolute promise of a shipping date in December without as it transpires a conformation of the manufacturing costs is the really crux of this fiasco and the undoing of TT. I had actually taken the opening up of pre-orders to be a sign that everything was going great and why not make a few more in the first run or hit another break-point for cost in manufacture. As it now transpires it was a near despriate attempt to claw in cash to fill the hole in the budget.

    Thomas Stoll on March 8
    :-) @Minning, thank you for all this information you have posted. Especialy the thing, that it will be shipped in May 2015. I think that will help to get the money back. I’ll give it a try.
    Thanks

    Stephen Cottle on March 8
    @ Minning – Sound like you had a better person to speak to – mine didnt have a clue.

    Ben Appleton on March 8
    Just got off the phone with my bank in Australia. They said maximum of 129 days is all they can do for a chargeback, even if it is a publicly known ‘scam’.
    Anyone keen to approach ACCC to see if there is anything they can do or had any success?

    Paul Brown on March 7
    This comment has been removed by Kickstarter.

    Minning Xiang on March 7
    @The JJ – I think you should chargeback Kickstarter but not TT.

    Minning Xiang on March 7
    If they say the time limit is 120 days, you can tell them the 120 days counts from the day you aware that it has problem, e.g. The date they posted update 26. Before that update it’s not a problem.
    “your deadline for requesting a chargeback is 120 days from discovering you have a problem, or 540 days from the transaction date, whichever comes first.”

    The JJ on March 7
    Hi – Can someone repost chargeback procedure for E.U! I have already starting the ball rolling but I need all of the TT company info and the procedure to move forward!
    Thanks!!

    Minning Xiang on March 7
    Pop into a branch and explain the situation. Then they will post you a form. Then print a copy of email confirming shipping date (update 24) and a copy of email saying they won’t ship the product and won’t refund (the latest update). Then post the documents and the form back to them, and wait for result.

    Minning Xiang on March 7
    I forgot to write down the ref number. I have posted the form back to them with supporting documents.

    Stephen Cottle on March 7
    @Minning that’s good news I’m a Barclays customer so will go in on Monday. Is there a reference number they gave you – might make it easier to put the case to them. Or is there anything in particular they needed..as proof?

    ndnihil on March 7
    Perhaps Haje should make an appearance on Dragons Den on BBC Two. He’s good at selling people on ideas, and maybe they’ll offer up enough funding for us to get our Adas.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006vq92

    Minning Xiang on March 7
    The deadline for chargeback is 12th May 2015 (if your card was charged on 18th Nov 2013). Anyone wants to claim a chargeback should take you time now.

    Minning Xiang on March 7
    @Gary Shuster – It’s Barclays, UK. I spent 20 minutes to explain the situation and at last they accepted my claim.

    Gary Shuster on March 7
    Minning, your bank is awesome! May I ask which bank? Seriously, a bank that goes to bat for customers like that is one I’d consider moving my accounts to.

    Minning Xiang on March 7
    My bank has accepted my chargeback claim. Just submitted supporting documents to the bank and am waiting for the result. Anyone else has filed a chargeback?

    Gary Shuster on March 7
    For anybody who lives in Washington state, your attorney general is willing to sue over kickstarter projects that don’t deliver. http://www.seattletimes.com/business/ag-sues-kickstarter-project-that-didnrsquot-deliver/ I would encourage people to contact the attorney general in their states and describe the facts of this case to them.

    Pieter on March 7
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2014/10/16/this-debunked-kickstarter-project-may-be-the-biggest-crowdfounding-fail-to-date/ Kickstarter, are you reading?

    Pieter on March 7
    You have spend this money using it as a growth spurt for your existing company and you know it. http://kamps.org/the-importance-of-job-titles/ I really am starting to think megalomaniac is probably the best word to describe this behaviour. Why don’t you write a couple of more articles about perfect storms and how great it is to fail. You are a product of something quite dark my friend, someone must have told you over and over again how awesome you are (was it you talking to yourself?).

    Pieter on March 7
    Megalomaniac behaviour. This man had been quite successful so far with his endeavours and now believes he had every right to take half a million dollars and blow it with the excuse of poor management. There are many obvious reasons why this is a disgraceful operation Haje Jan Kamps and if you don’t see it you really lack a sense of reality. Kickstarter is as bad as TT with their copy paste responses. For starters, can you let us know how much it would cost to produce now? I want ALL the information and access to the prototypes so I can look into this myself as well.

    Gary Shuster on March 7
    Triggertrap posted “Kickstarter is not a shop, nor is it a way of investing in a company, or a mechanism for pre-ordering a product.” Rather than trying to characterize what people guess Kickstarter is supposed to be, we, as consumers, get to rely on the legal requirements imposed on project creators. The Kickstarter terms of service that apply to this project (https://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use/oct2012) provide: “Project Creators are required to fulfill all rewards of their successful fundraising campaigns or refund any Backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill. Project Creators may cancel or refund a Backer’s pledge at any time and for any reason, and if they do so, are not required to fulfill the reward.” These sequential sentences make very clear that at the time we backed the project, Triggertrap agreed that it was required to either refund all of our money or provide the reward. The second sentence provides context for the first, making clear that TT’s argument that “refund” means “return the left-overs” is wrong. So yes, at the time we backed the project, Kickstarter was precisely “a shop” and “a mechanism for pre-ordering a product”. Just saying something often enough doesn’t make it true. The contract terms are what they are, and triggertrap can’t just wish them away.

    Peter Heide on March 7
    Dan Upton: Destroying the prototypes or giving them to a few “lucky” backers doesn’t really fix anything. But Triggertrap shouldn’t have them. They shouldn’t benefit from them. When they want to use them for a little photo project or to grace their company museum, they shouldn’t be able to. Haje and Triggertrap are only willing to do for the backers they screwed over that which costs them nothing. Fine, whatever, sometimes people get away with behaving despicably. But they shouldn’t get to keep anything from this that was paid for with our money.

    Jesus Haces on March 7
    Any timeframe on the releasing of the open source and the 3d models? At least we’ll be able to print/solder/program our own :/

    Paul Brown on March 7
    This comment has been removed by Kickstarter.

    Dan Upton on March 7
    Since it seems to be the topic of the day: I’ll chime in and say that I don’t think TT should destroy the Ada prototypes or deliver them to backers. Destroying them accomplishes nothing for anybody. If I were optimistic I could imagine that if the company doesn’t crash and burn completely from this, and sometime in the future they work out the pricing kinks on a future generation, they’d be so kind as to fulfill their backer obligations with those even after paying out the refunds, as an act of goodwill, but that’s unrealistic. For issuing them to backers: how do a half-dozen prototypes make any dent in, say, the almost 1000 people who backed at the highest level? Draw straws and everybody else gets angry that they didn’t get anything? And as for selling them off… realistically, at best that would add a dollar or two to everybody’s refund.

    Ed Catlett on March 7
    “I think the biggest challenge in all of this came as a surprise to me. Getting the funds from Kickstarter turned out to be easy; developing the product was anything but. However, it was an incredibly exciting and gratifying process. Placing tens of thousands of dollars’ worth of orders was undoubtedly very scary, but that, too, turned out to be doable; it turns out that no matter how worried or frustrated you get in the process of something like this, you can pick up the phone and resolve your issues quite easily.”
    Another way to resolve issues is to refund money you wasted by absorbing risk yourself instead of putting 100% of the risk on people who trusted you and your company.
    Also interesting is that
    http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2012/01/triggertrap-the-story

    Andreas on March 7
    This comment has been removed by Kickstarter.

    Doug Williams on March 7
    You know, I was OK! I felt gutted to lose my money, but felt even more gutted for you as a team, a company! However when I look at the PIE chart and read that you have spent almost £90K on wages and contractors! My god Haje, that’s £40K more than you original needed for the entire project. What the hell have you done? How did you not see this coming?. So now putting this aside. If you fully believe in future of TT and want nothing more than to refund all of us 100% if you could, then why not make a pledge and transfer the value as equity in TT? Not even sure if that would be possible, but if it could, I would be up for that, as I would hate to see TT fold, yet, and I guess this is the core of why so much anger can be read, is how Ada can fail at our cost, whilst TT continues.

    Stephen Cottle on March 7
    TT – you say arent bringing it to the market but you have said about using it for future plans, to me that the same.

    Pieter on March 7
    Shivers.

    Troy Jones on March 7
    Kickstarter Trust @triggertrap
    Be open. Dec 16 2014 Shipping Date Announcement!
    Be responsive. We failed. We can only refund 20% of your pledge because we have wasted the other 80%…
    Be honest. November 2013 Ada is already at late stage in the development process

    Pieter on March 7
    For the Australians, maybe this is an idea? https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/complaints-problems/make-a-consumer-complaint#step-3—take-legal-action

    Ed Catlett on March 7
    “We are ashamed, sad, and embarrassed to have failed to deliver, but taking big risks and trying to make new products happen is exactly what Kickstarter is for. Kickstarter is not a shop, nor is it a way of investing in a company, or a mechanism for pre-ordering a product.”
    And not a single Euro poorer. You took NO risks. Your company became larger, gained IP and shamelessly overspent your original funding ask by multiples. Stop trying to play the martyrs. You aren’t. You SHOULD be ashamed, sad and embarrassed. You behaved like children with a big bag of candy paid for by someone else. Kickstarter itself is no better because they are not bringing any pressure to bear and not enforcing their own rules that you signed up for when starting the project. I’m done with both of you and will make it a personal mission to spread that word far and wide. I hope you both go down in flames.

    Pieter on March 7
    And I totally agree with Joe Reynolds:
    @TT could you just clarify if you’ve made any attempt to recoup some of the value that lies within the R&D and any other existing remnants of the ADA project by selling them and using those funds to refund additional money to your backers, instead of just giving it out for free to the general public?

    Pieter on March 7
    I know what I am and what I am not Haje, what I pointed out was exactly that, that normal companies do have investors that expect something in return, way more than simply a finished product. Being an established company using Kickstarter to carelessly spend this much money is a sign of very poor character. You truly believe you are right and that is quite sad. It is even more sad that we think we are, because we won’t ever see our money back.

    Pieter on March 7
    Also, it is impossible to sell that you willingly went as far as spending 80% of the funds where you should have stopped at roughly 15%. Since that was your initial goal, that should have covered everything up to production. You willingly have done this, or you are truly not very smart to begin with. This is a matter of simple figures, not rocket science. No matter how you twist or turn it, it shows very poor character the way you have handled this. Going that far into the budget also means that your anticipated margin clearly was insane and again, your decision to gamble on that made this project fail. You should have stopped at 50K dude, that would’ve been a sell. Give people 85% back and one of your little cables and everybody would’ve been happy. I now lost AU$400 This is disgraceful.

    Rob White on March 7
    TriggerTrap Team you are Just Useless

    Pieter on March 7
    I don’t think you are criminal masterminds. I am just absolutely baffled that you can make yourself believe this is ‘ok’ and ‘all in the game’.
    The big problem is the communication throughout the project. I never expected to get the “bad news” after you had announced a shipping date. The second problem is the fact you never took any risk and blew 80% of other people’s money. The third is that now you are left with so much r&d knowledge and even working prototypes, but the backers are left empty handed.
    Reading comments on several blogs and also your response, I start to realise how different perceptions are of what backing on Kickstarter means. Many see it as ‘all in the game’ of high risk investment in startups. I wasn’t an ‘investor’, investors get a share in the business in exchange for their high risk investment.
    I backed the development of a product by an existing company not in the hope of receiving a finished product, but believing I would, or would get my money back. That is the tone both you and Kickstarter use. Obviously, otherwise nobody would ever ‘back’ a project ever again. I am fairly over the whole Kickstarter attitude to be honest and this was the final debacle I needed.
    In my opinion you have abused the loopholes in favour of a pet project and it will all work out fine for you and your business. I wish I had half a million to play around with. You show hardly any remorse and I truly believe you think this is just our bad luck. It definitely isn’t your bad luck, because you effectively got paid.

    Troy Jones on March 7
    @triggertrap you failed at all three..
    Be open. Let everyone know who you are and what you want to accomplish. You’re asking people to work with you toward a common goal — and it’s a lot easier for them to do that when they know where you’re coming from.
    Be responsive. Do your best to answer backers’ questions and address their concerns, quickly and thoroughly. It’s a great way of showing people that you’re reliable, available, and committed to your project.
    Be honest. Sometimes it’s tempting to “sell” your project with a glossy pitch and assurances that the work will be easy. But backers can trust you much more when you’re being straightforward and honest. Give them a real look at the work you’re doing, and be frank about the risks and challenges involved

    Ed Catlett on March 7
    I came back in to see if there was any change in this situation and am simply ASTOUNDED at the arrogance displayed by TriggerTrap and especially Haje. Many people funded this Kickstarter because of the company and it having gotten another similar piece of hardware shipped. The company and Haje’s assets should come into play in this. They have taken absolutely no risk in this entire thing and aren’t offering a single penny. Every single penny being offered, including store discounts has the same net result. It doesn’t actually cost Haje or the company anything. Kickstarter really needs to jump in here and enforce the 100% refund or Kickstarter itself is going to get burned on this. It is very clear that Haje is pleased with the media response he has gotten from this. Both TriggerTrap and Kickstarter need to feel some loss from this. It is very clear that Haje and team were misleading the backers all the way into January and Kickstarter is just letting them get away with it.

    Creator Triggertrap on March 7
    @pieter
    “This sets a precedent for any company that wants to risk and carefree do some playful R&D without any obligation towards its investors”
    A couple of things here – Kickstarter backers are not investors. Please see https://www.kickstarter.com/trust for an overview what Kickstarter is and isn’t, and https://triggertrap.reamaze.com/kb/triggertrap-redsnap/faq-has-kickstarter-made-a-statement-about-triggertrap-ada-s-failure about Kickstarter’s take on this.
    We are ashamed, sad, and embarrassed to have failed to deliver, but taking big risks and trying to make new products happen is exactly what Kickstarter is for. Kickstarter is not a shop, nor is it a way of investing in a company, or a mechanism for pre-ordering a product.
    I’m sorry that we’ve let you down, but we’re doing everything we can to wrap up this campaign and so our backers get at least some of their money back.
    Team Triggertrap

    steve wood on March 7
    OK stand corrected, code working..

    Paul Brown on March 7
    @Haje – Again in the same FAQ you state that you ‘Essentially started from scratch ‘ At that point you should have contacted your investors, explained the issue and see if they still wanted to support you. You basically asked for money to back one project then essentially built a new one.

    steve wood on March 7
    Store discount code not working. Why am I not surprised…..

    Paul Brown on March 7
    @Haje – You openly state in your FAQ under the bit about a working prototype
    ‘However, even as the Kickstarter project was in progress, it became clear that we had made a mistake. ‘
    The ONLY promise you make on your Campaign page was to keep us updated at all times.
    How did you progress even knowing, at an early stage that there were issues and your never informed us?
    This just gets better and better.

    MDDCFlyer on March 7
    It is amazing the hubris you guys present. With each answer you just dig yourself deeper and deeper. It is amazing to see how antagonizing and insensitive your answers and FAQ are.
    I particularly love the “wasting 18 months and a huge amount of money” – Please tell me where can I find a job were I can be paid for 18 months, fail miserably and keep that job? Because I’d really want that job – I am willing to waste 36 months if that would help. Really? Cannot you see that this just going to antagonize us more. I am still waiting to see who had lost their job because their poor performance on the project (my guess, no one). And by the way, that money you have wasted – it is our money not yours.
    If you were really committed to the project, I would not have expected to see any of salary expenses. Put some of your own skin into the game.
    I guess that is the new model for KS – completely risk free R&D for established companies. They will not see my money any more.

    Joe Reynolds on March 7
    @TT could you just clarify if you’ve made any attempt to recoup some of the value that lies within the R&D and any other existing remnants of the ADA project by selling them and using those funds to refund additional money to your backers, instead of just giving it out for free to the general public?

    Paul Brown on March 7
    European Claims – If anyone did go ahead and open a case with the european claims team in their relevant euro countries, please email me at adaoptions@gmail.com. I am seeing traction here in the UK. Let me know your representative and we can sync them all up. In the email to me stipulate that your only interest in this is as an ADA backer and you are not associated with or part of Triggertrap or any of its companies in any way, shape or form. Maybe if we get them all working together it ill be a bigger impact.
    For those who missed the post of how to claim in Europe have a look here. http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/archive/ecc/contact_en.htm

    Rob White on March 7
    @TT you can’t assume we want you to open source any of this if you are taking ANY notice of thats being say here. Please start listening and stop being so arrogant its not your sole decision anymore.

    Paul Brown on March 7
    @haje – The open source was never ‘Promised’ TT stated that they would release it as Open Source AFTER it had shipped. As it has not shipped there is no obligation to release it. From what I am seeing, the people who air any preference in this area is saying do not release.

    Rob White on March 7
    The thing is unlike an investor in a company the ONLY reward we all were looking for was a slightly discount unit before the went on public sale. We weren’t going to profit long term from this project, only TT were going to make money as a company. I find I hard to listen to TT talk to us as if we were playing the long game risk wise for a large return.

    Paul Brown on March 7
    @Haje – Please read this thread. I am not the only one saying this. Triggertrap cannot keep the prototypes that we paid for. I would also like a complete list of every asset purchased for this project as these will not belong to Triggertrap.

    Creator Triggertrap on March 6
    @pieter
    “It all seems either rather naive or planned”
    It seems as if you – and a few others – think that we are criminal masterminds. Which is flattering, but honestly: wasting 18 months and a huge amount of money in the pursuit of delivering a next-gen camera triggering device doesn’t strike us as particularly lucrative. Trust us: We would have much rather delivered Triggertrap Ada on time and on budget, rather than having to go through all of this. Besides, if we were out to screw our backers, why would we be doing any refunds at all?
    As I’ve written about at great length elsewhere, this project was a perfect storm of getting things wrong, bad luck, relying on the wong people, poor management, and lots of other things.
    Now, we are trying to do the right thing by wrapping up the failed project as well as we can, which includes offering refunds, releasing the work done so far as open source, and trying to do a full and frank retrospective of what went wrong, both as an explanation to our backers, and to help other, future Kickstarter projects
    I know that you are all really disappointed – both to not receive your triggers, and in us for failing to deliver.
    Unfortunately, the options we’ve put on the table is all we can commit to.
    Haje Jan Kamps
    CEO, Triggertrap

    Creator Triggertrap on March 6
    @Stephen Cottle
    “I also think we should have it in writing that TT will not produce any form of camera triggering system that resembles anything like the Ada” and “All r&d belings to us the backer as it our money that paid for it. Therefore you don’t have rights to use it in any way. Unless you fully refund us.”
    Please see this: https://triggertrap.reamaze.com/kb/triggertrap-redsnap/faq-are-you-still-bringing-triggertrap-ada-to-market
    Team Triggertrap

    Creator Triggertrap on March 6
    @Paul Brown
    “You should not keep the prototypes that we paid for”
    Please see https://triggertrap.reamaze.com/kb/triggertrap-redsnap/faq-what-are-you-doing-with-the-prototypes-can-i-buy-one for our response on that.
    Team Triggertrap

    Creator Triggertrap on March 6
    @Paul Brown
    “I am sure you are following the discussions on Reddit”
    We haven’t been; we were told that this is the space that you guys want to use to have your own discussions, which is, of course, fine. When you reach a consensus and want to present your conclusions, please e-mail us, and we can continue the dialogue from there.
    Team Triggertrap

    Pieter on March 6
    I still think this is kind of “groundbreaking” in a way. This sets a precedent for any company that wants to risk and carefree do some playful R&D without any obligation towards its investors. You just start a Kickstarter campaign using your established name and hope for the best. It is quite awful to realise that this in the end will only benefit Haje. He is getting al the exposure he has ever wished for and can at one point even start believing it was all a great success…

    Stephen Cottle on March 6
    All r&d belings to us the backer as it our money that paid for it. Therefore you don’t have rights to use it in any way. Unless you fully refund us.

    Stephen Cottle on March 6
    That should be want*

    Stephen Cottle on March 6
    Email stating they warn our reply to the survey end of the month almost bullying us into it. Until you give us the answers to the question we ask then we should hold fire to our dicision.
    I also think we should have it in writing that TT will not produce any form of camera triggering system that resembles anything like the Ada

    Pieter on March 6
    And stop writing crap like this please:
    “The long and short of it, is that we expect that the prototypes will be used for testing future Triggertrap products, and we’ll keep a few of them around in our Triggertrap museum – as a reminder of the biggest challenge we’ve faced to date.”
    We ALL think you have no right to keep the results of your mess.

    Pieter on March 6
    The biggest mindf@$& is really when you start reading the updates. It all seems either rather naive or planned, because I can’t see how you could send updates about shipping in May knowing you had blown already so much of your budget. Haje, mate, this reeks like nothing else! Full disclosure of this cluster f@$& is needed to give us some reassurance of what you have done with our money.

    Troy Jones on March 6
    @triggertrap / Haje not good enough… Why cant you answer some of my questions. It just does not make sense just don’t believe you. How is it that Matt is off working on a new project? The only logical explanation i can see is you gave up/lost interest half way through/realised it was not viable i don’t believe it just crashed and burned at the end.. Please help me to understand i have asked to see your itemised expenditure a number of times.

    Paul Brown on March 6
    @Haje – I am sure you are following the discussions on Reddit. It seems I am not the only one who agrees you should not keep the prototypes that we paid for. I suggest you come up with a solution for items that you have amassed during the project. Not just prototypes but the equipment you have mentioned. For me it is simple. Destroy them ( I would want proof ). Its a terrible waste but you should not be using equipmet/prototypes/code that we paid for and got nothing back.

    Creator Triggertrap on March 6
    Troy – we understand that you are upset, but all our answers are available in the FAQ. https://triggertrap.reamaze.com/kb/triggertrap-redsnap
    To claim your refund, please fill in the form we sent to you by e-mail.
    Thank you
    Team Triggertrap / Haje

    Troy Jones on March 6
    Thanks for your reply Matt.. But really cant see what could of possibly more important then seeing this project though unless knew full well back then it was never going to work.
    I’m sorry what reason you could of possibly have had. If your open with us maybe we can start to forgive. Surly it cant be a personal thing or not having enough time for the project.. As straight away you have managed to setup another company, Create a new product, and Launch another successful kickstarter campaign… looks you would of have had to put loads of work more work into Vela Labs then to finish Ada as we where told it was already at late stage in the development process before we even backed it.
    @Triggertrap who are these “incompetent contractors” you used? Sounds like a good scape goat.. What where there names/company please?
    Hey man we tried and failed projects dont always work out but don’t worry its not the end of trigger trap..
    We refunded all our customers because we have more customers then backers
    Oh backers you can have a percentage of the money we dint spend..
    Yet Tos was clear when we backed this project “Project Creators are required to fulfill all rewards of their successful fundraising campaigns or refund any Backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill”
    @Haje refund any Backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfil. End of dont add any other words..
    refund
    1.
    pay back (money), typically to a customer who is not satisfied with goods or services bought.
    Does not mean the only the money you haven’t spent.. Your mistakes. Your problem we are also your customers too.

    Minning Xiang on March 6
    @ TT – You said you have spent ~80% of the fund. After giving the rest 20% as refund, you will keep everything left (say the prototypes, electronic components already ordered) for free?

    Creator Triggertrap on March 6
    Hey everyone,
    Today, we started processing the first refunds in the form of shop credit – we will keep a FAQ up to date re: the status of the refunds: https://triggertrap.reamaze.com/articles/refund-status
    Thank you
    Team Triggertrap

    Ron Archer on March 6
    How embarrassing……for ME too!
    At the time I backed AND funded this project, we were on a single income, with a newborn baby. My wife was against me backing this project because we didn’t really have the money to blow, but of course I said…..it’s by Trigertrap! I have 2 mobile dongles and accessories, so I know the company. We can trust them, I said…
    PFFFFT! What a mistake that was!
    While you guys were pissing in our pockets about how good it is and how far it is coming along, and pissing our money up the wall ( stay in some good 5 star motels whilst travelling to the factories did we ???), we, as your backers, may have been struggling financially, or like us, making sacrifices to afford your promised product.
    I will not be happy with 20%…..I am not happy with 50% in store….(I already have 2 mobile devices!) 100% refund is the right thing to do.
    Anyway, I’m off to decide if I tell the wife I blew $300 aussie dollars on a heap of emails promising the world……Or just wait until one day she remembers and asks about it…………..
    100% Refund for me please. I need to pay my mortgage..

    Matt Kane on March 6
    @troy Jones: I’d really rather not go into all of the details of why I left, but suffice to say it’s not something I wanted to do. I was heartbroken to leave a company I’d help Haje build. I was particularly unhappy to be unable to see the Ada project to fruition. It wasn’t a case of swanning off and waving “so long, suckers”. In any case I really don’t think it was my leaving that put the project onto its path to failure. I was just one of many people working on it. The actual dev was all being done by the incompetent $%$$^%$$%** contractors who screwed up the code. Maybe I’d’ve sacked them earlier? Who knows. I wasn’t party to any of the meetings after I left.
    Regarding the IP: I’m mainly referring to the half a dozen pages of notes that I’d written up when we first had the idea of the high-speed flash. Triggertrap paid for it inasmuch as it was paying my salary when I wrote it up, and the salaries of the rest of the team when we were brainstorming. TT had no plans to develop it at that stage anyway, but when I realised I was having to leave I asked for it so I had something to work on after I left. The Vela trademarks were the other part of the deal, mainly because I’d thought of the name and really liked it. It’s named after the satellite that discovered gamma ray bursts, the brightest flashes in the universe.

    Creator Triggertrap on March 6
    We were just notified that Camera Axe has a special offer for backers of Triggertrap’s Ada project. Please see http://www.cameraaxe.com/getting-started/ for information.

    Paul Brown on March 6
    This comment has been removed by Kickstarter.

    Creator Triggertrap on March 6
    Hey everyone,
    A few of you were asking why we aren’t sending out the Triggertrap Mobile kits that are part of some backer levels.
    We’ve prepared a FAQ here: https://triggertrap.reamaze.com/articles/faq-why-aren-t-you-sending-out-the-cables-dongles-that-were-part-of-the-backer-rewards
    Thank you,
    Team Triggertrap

    Creator Triggertrap on March 6
    Hey everybody,
    There have been a few questions about the Vela Kickstarter project and its relation to Triggertrap.
    We’ve posted an explanation here: https://triggertrap.reamaze.com/articles/what-is-vela-and-how-does-it-relate-to-triggertrap
    Team Triggertrap / Haje

    Troy Jones on March 6
    @Matt Kane please put our minds at rest a give us a good reason my you would even consider leaving halfway through this project? We backed your vision, invested a life changing mount of money in your dream.. Quitting half way though is a very selfish thing todo don’t you think.. sending this project on its path to failure?
    Also you had to wait for vela ip to be transferred does that mean Triggertrap originally paid for the ip as that was part of your main pay off?
    We need answers.

    Creator Triggertrap on March 6
    @Noctec
    “When do you plan to release the code, design ?”
    We’re aiming for by the end of the month, but processing refunds and shop credits etc are taking a priority for now, so it may be slightly later.

    “Why not make PCBs without plastic cases ? What about DIY kits ?”
    We’ve addressed that in this FAQ: https://triggertrap.reamaze.com/articles/faq-would-it-be-possible-to-make-a-kit-diy-version-of-ada
    – Team Triggertrap

    Creator Triggertrap on March 6
    @Paul Brown
    “I suggest (again) that the designs and code are handed over to us and not the general public and ALL prototypes are destroyed and Triggertrap sign a document pertaining to that”
    You’ve been the only person to suggest that we should destroy the prototypes so far, but we’ll take it under consideration.
    – Team Triggertrap

    Creator Triggertrap on March 6
    @Khürt
    “What about people, like me, who didn’t receive the form?”
    Please contact us on hello@triggertrap.com and we’ll be able to send you the form right away.
    – Team Triggertrap

    Creator Triggertrap on March 6
    @troy Jones
    “With who’s money” [did you refund the pre-order sales]?
    The pre-orders were open from a short period, but when it turned out that the pre-order sales weren’t enough to rescue the project, we refunded the same money that was paid back to the pre-order customers.
    – Team Triggertrap

    Creator Triggertrap on March 6
    @Hugh Beauchamp
    “Are there any plans to make a version of v1 (or even the arduino shield) available to buy ever again”
    There are no current plans to resurrect TTv1 or the Arduino shield.
    – Team Triggertrap

    Andreas on March 6
    This comment has been removed by Kickstarter.

    Paul Brown on March 6
    @Haje – Also, your intepretation of Promise? ‘Once we’ve started shipping, we’ll publish the source code on GitHub, and you’ll be able to add, amend, and tune Triggertrap Ada to your heart’s content.’
    You NEVER started shipping?

    Creator Triggertrap on March 6
    @Joe Reynolds
    “RE the message stating that anyone that hasn’t responded will shortly be assumed to want the store credit as their preferred method of refund… Why are we being held to a time limit?”
    We want to ensure that everyone answers as promptly as possible, so we can process all the refunds as quickly as possible. We’ve set a 1-month deadline, which we hope will be ample for people to choose their preferred option, and to enable anyone who’s out of the office or away from e-mail to get to the form in time.
    “Have you not approached other companies and attempted to sell the results of the R&D in order to make your investors back as much of their money as possible?”
    We did try this, but were unsuccessful in our efforts to find a buyer of the IP.
    – Team Triggertrap

    Paul Brown on March 6
    @Haje ‘Finally, we promise to keep you guys in the loop every step of the way, so you know how we are getting on!’
    What does ‘Promise’ mean? You clearly din’t live up to the above promise

    Creator Triggertrap on March 6
    @Paul Brown “I have asked via email, directly now (Twice) that the code and designs are NOT issued open source but should be given to backers.”
    Open-sourcing our software etc was part of the original Kickstarter campaign. Given that this is one of the promises we will be able to deliver on, we will release the code as open source as quickly as we can. Our #1 priority is ensuring that our refunds are processed as quickly as possible, next on the list is releasing the source code.
    – Team Triggertrap

    Creator Triggertrap on March 6
    @Thomas “The idea of a mailadresse whould be good”
    You may direct any queries to hello@triggertrap.com or for our mailing address, see https://triggertrap.reamaze.com/articles/faq-where-can-i-contact-triggertrap-why-did-you-delete-my-comment

    Paul Brown on March 6
    @Haje – Which makes me think when you spoke to KS it may have been higher than 20.2? Trust me, every penny counts. I would rather I had every penny than you. I guess it will all come out eventually.

    Creator Triggertrap on March 6
    @Paul – We are running a live budget, which means that when another invoice came in from a supplier, things changed slightly. Right this very moment, the exact remaining money from the Kickstarter campaign is 19.87%, but we’ve locked this in at 20%, so we are offering 20% refunds.

    Paul Brown on March 6
    @Haje – Out of Interest, if KS told you to refund what was left, why are we not getting 20.2%?

    Paul Brown on March 6
    @Haje – So where is the 19% coming from? You also quoted 20.2 the day before? Forgive me if I treat everything you say with caution.

    Creator Triggertrap on March 6
    Paul – The 20% is not diminishing, we are refunding exactly 20% – as was also confirmed in the very e-mail you are quoting.
    Team Triggertrap / Haje

    Paul Brown on March 6
    It looks like the 20% promised is diminishing. Here is a response I got from TT. Gone from 20.2% to just over 19 :-(
    ‘Thanks for getting in touch. We would love to offer everybody a 100% refund on what they paid, but the truth is that we’ve invested so heavily in Ada that we wouldn’t be able to do that. Of the money we received from Kickstarter, we have just over 19% left, and this is the funds that we are making available for refunds.’

    Matt Kane on March 6
    Hi,
    I realise I am a backer under my other account, so I’ll repost here what I said to C.D. in another message. Here’s what I said:
    I see they’re also concerned about my shareholding. Yes, I do currently have one of the major shareholdings as I was CTO for 2.5 years, though the register is a bit misleading as we have a reverse vesting arrangement which means Haje actually has a lot more of an interest since I left. Feel free to pay to download the legal agreements if you’re really interested! There’s nothing shocking hidden in there.
    I’ve had zero influence on the running of Triggertrap since I left. The closest contact was when I met with one of the TT guys to try the Ada prototype out with Vela. I’ve not seen Haje since July. The first I knew that they considering cancelling the Ada project was a couple of weeks before all of you lot. If anything I was probably more shocked than you!
    Oh, and no: I didn’t get a fat payoff from the Ada funds. The Vela IP was my main payoff, if you could call it that, plus staying on the payroll for a few months (also not from Ada funds).
    My final point is that if it wasn’t so tragic it would be funny that so many people seem to think this was a grand masterplan to screw everyone. No, it’s a grand fuckup. Nobody’s getting rich off of this. In fact it’s clearly an existential threat to the company.
    Say what you want about Haje and the TT guys (and there’s plenty of criticism to go round, including for me), but I know they fought tooth and nail to try to get this product out there. They’re not laughing at you: they’re all utterly miserable about what’s happened. I know I am too, and I haven’t even worked on Ada since May.
    Vela Labs
    Vela Labs
    Mar 6, 2015
    Final point: the delay in the trademark switchover is probably down to it being an international trademark, so it all goes through WIPO which adds a layer of delay. In any case the final transfer was only actioned a few weeks ago, as it took that long for the trademark to be finally registered.
    As for the overlap in my directorships: that’s simply because of all of the delays in lawyering to do with me leaving. I left Triggertrap in the middle of May, and started Vela a few days later.
    I’m sorry you think the laser trigger is an insult. I did it because I needed something to test Vela, and made a sound trigger for the same reason. I didn’t do the electronics design for Ada, so the two are unrelated. In fact I taught myself what electronics and embedding programming skills I have after I left TT.
    Someone also suggested that Vela might take on the open source Ada designs. My main concern there is the impression that might give that I was profiting from the Ada failure, even if I promised to do it at cost. What I would be fine with is helping anyone who wants to take it forward, though bear in mind I haven’t seen the circuits since May. However I think most of the disasters since then have been software. My understanding is that it’s pretty much ready to send to manufacture anyway.

    Creator Triggertrap on March 6
    Hey everybody,
    Sorry to be slow to respond to the most recent comments; it’s 5am in London.
    The speculation around Vela is addressed in this FAQ: https://triggertrap.reamaze.com/articles/what-is-vela-and-how-does-it-relate-to-triggertrap
    Thank you.
    Team Triggertrap / Haje

    Troy Jones on March 6
    So the plot thickens
    VELA LABS LTD Company Number 09045683 Date of Incorporation:19/05/2014
    DIRECTOR: KANE, MATTHEW SOLOMON MR 19/05/2014
    TRIGGERTRAP LTD Company Number 07742161 Date of Incorporation:16/08/201
    14/07/2014 APPOINTMENT TERMINATED, DIRECTOR MATTHEW KANE
    Kane started Vela 19/05/2014 and officially left Triggertrap 14/07/2014
    Ill take a guess of what could of happened… Triggertrap was owned 50/50 by Haje and Kane they had a falling out. Haje probably used our money to pay Kane off to save braking up triggertraps assets and went there separate ways. Kane was probably the brains behind triggertraps developments hence his new products don’t know who is worst right now Kane for leaving or Haje for stringing us along. This is fraud ether way.
    WAKE UP Kickstarter any one who believes Haje lies now? Why cant we see a itemised expenditure list for our 290k because if don’t exist the pie chart was fabricated.
    Final insult any one? http://www.vela.io/posts/building-a-laser-camera-trigger-for-2-dollars/
    DON’T ACCEPT ANYTHING LESS THEN A FULL REFUND

    Gary Shuster on March 6
    I did not know that, Dan. Well, that changes things, doesn’t it? There isn’t much transparency here. This whole thing is a disaster.

    Dan McColl on March 6
    Bear in mind tat the owner of Vela labs is one of the two major shareholders of Triggertrap.

    Gary Shuster on March 6
    My concerns about Velo have been addressed by somebody in a parallel thread (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/triggertrap/triggertrap-redsnap-modular-camera-trigger/posts/1144189…). I’m copying my response here.
    Thank you for doing that, C.D. That is a complete, quick, and reasonable response. There is a (small) remaining issue, which, in light of his response, is far more likely to be an oversight on his part. I work with the USPTO a lot. I’ve filed hundreds of applications with them. Yes, they can be glacial in responding, but they are actually quite good at quickly updating their electronic records. Either the USPTO assignment was filed in the last few days or (far more likely) it hasn’t yet been filed. This is not an alarming error (i.e. not alarming in the conspiracy sense), and is probably an oversight by Vela’s lawyers. Here is the link: http://assignments.uspto.gov/assignments/q…
    Sounds like a reasonable explanation. I suppose there is no way to know with certainty, but it does sound like Vela is suffering along with the rest of us.
    That said, Vela probably should consider taking the open source designs and running with them. As the former CTO for triggertrap, he is probably the only person who can do it quickly. As much as I feel burned by the Ada thing, I would definitely consider paying for a Vela bundled with an Ada clone. Additionally, I don’t want to see Triggertrap benefit further from this, but assuming that Vela is telling the truth (seems reasonable), I *would* like to see *somebody* other than Triggertrap actually build the Ada so at least the device will actually get deployed in the world. So just a thought. The Ada remains a great idea, so whoever brings it to market first is going to make some real money.
    Thank you again for getting the followup so quickly. When I wrote “while there are other possible explanations”, I was hoping that there was some explanation for the trademark ownership by TT that didn’t involve Vela being owned by triggertrap. I’m very happy to see that a good explanation was in fact offered.

    David Lewinsohn on March 6
    Below is the response to my enquiry from Kickstarter.
    It is pasted verbatim.
    Kickstarter Support (Kickstarter)
    Mar 5, 12:41
    Hi there,
    As the creators and stewards of Kickstarter, we hate more than anything when a project doesn’t come to fruition. Allowing creators to take risks and attempt to bring something new to life is the backbone of what we do. However, we also understand that there is an inherent level of risk in any creation process.
    Kickstarter is built around minimizing that risk through all-or-nothing funding, which allows the collective voice of the people to decide which projects reach their goal. On our end, we review projects, uphold our rules, practice careful governance, and use anti-fraud filtering. The foundation of the entire system, however, is the collective wisdom of the people who back projects.
    Still, despite a creator’s best efforts, some projects won’t always come together as planned. In these situations we make ourselves available to creators to help however we can, and we encourage them to be as open as possible with their backers about the obstacles they face. But no matter our efforts, projects will sometimes fail to come together as planned and backers will sometimes be disappointed in outcomes. We cannot issue refunds on behalf of a creator. That said, we strive to constantly learn from this, and to make sure that expectations are appropriately set for backers (like on our Trust & Safety page).
    If you have feedback on ways that we can improve this experience and more appropriately set expectations, please let us know. It’s our mission to make sure that Kickstarter is a place where folks can launch and support projects with confidence and excitement.
    Best,
    Noah
    I leave this up to this group to draw your own conclusions.

    Paul Brown on March 6
    This comment has been removed by Kickstarter.

    Gary Shuster on March 6
    Unfortunately, there are two comment threads here, so apologies for posting to both. I did more digging. Triggertrap is the owner of the trademark for “Vela” for use with flashes (go to http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe… and select “Basic word mark search”, select “owner” in the dropdown menu and search for “triggertrap”). What is Vela? Per http://www.vela.io, Vela is a high speed flash designed to be triggered by “Triggertrap Ada, TTv1, Camera Axe, DIY triggers and more”. It was funded via Kickstarter a few months ago (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/vela/vela-one-the-worlds-first-high-speed-led-flash…).
    According to the Vela kickstarter page, “Vela Labs is … Matt Kane. Until earlier this year [he] was CTO of Triggertrap”. My favorite line on the page: In trying to convince people to fund Vela, Kane says “I (Matt) have nearly three years experience as CTO of Triggertrap developing and launching photography hardware, including two successful Kickstarter projects.” Um, might want to update that, since one of those projects was the Ada.
    So we have Triggertrap burning through $354,000 out of $442,446 raised and then giving up. Triggertrap owns at least the trademark on Vela, another high speed trigger flash hardware business run by one of their associates that prominently describes how well it works with Triggertraps. Triggertrap is going to make the software and hardware for the trigger open source. Vela, a Triggertrap-associated company, is building one of the few (or only) flashes in the world that can fully take advantage of the Ada technology.
    In my opinion, while there are other possible explanations, I speculate that there is a very simple story that would tie this all together: Triggertrap does all of the fundraising to develop the Ada triggers that Vela is going to need. Triggertrap upgrades their hardware and user interface to work better with Vela, in the process making the Triggertrap portion of the project fail financially. No problem, because Vela can still use the Ada software and hardware designs as soon as they are open-sourced. Triggertrap fails, Vela succeeds wildly, Vela builds Adas itself or integrates it into their flashes, Triggertrap associates make great money, Ada Kickstarter backers get nothing. Even if Triggertrap associates don’t have a direct financial interest in Vela, surely the trademark to Vela is something Triggertrap will license to Vela for a good deal of cash.
    This whole thing is starting to look really bad. I’m open to an explanation – but one that is complete, open and honest. Here are some questions:
    (1) Does triggertrap own the Vela? If not, how is it that they own the trademark? Please describe how Vela is related to triggertrap.
    (2) Does triggertrap, its former and/or current employees have any interest in the Vela?
    (3) Why did triggertrap not disclose the departure of their chief technical officer in the middle of trying to build the Ada?
    (4) Vela is actually in production (see https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/vela/vela-one-the-worlds-first-high-speed-led-flash/description). Clearly, from Vela’s documentation, Vela would enormously benefit from the Ada trigger. Why doesn’t triggertrap sell the IP rights to the hardware and software designs to Vela (instead of open sourcing them), thereby raising enough money to pay back a substantial amount of the backer’s losses (if not all of the losses)?
    (5) Was any of the money raised via the Ada kickstarter project used to pay attorneys’ fees and filing fees to register the Vela trademark? The mark was prosecuted by the prominent (and not cheap) law firm of Arent Fox.

    Christopher Seaton on March 6
    They’re offended enough by comments that they want them removed by Kickstarter. I’m offended by the lack of transparency throughout and the theft of my money, but that matters for nothing in their eyes.

    Raul Sanchez Jr on March 6
    I have absolutely no interest in a 50% store credit because I do not want to buy any crap from your company.

    Creator Triggertrap on March 6
    @David Lewinsohn
    “If we take TT to court can TT legally use our remaining money to fund their court case?”
    We have committed to refunding the 20% of the remaining funds, and will stand by that commitment. We would not spend any of those funds for any legal proceedings that would occur.
    Team Triggertrap / Haje

    Creator Triggertrap on March 6
    We have had to resort to asking Kickstarter to remove a couple of comments from our Kickstarter campaign. That is done extremely rarely, and usually only if someone should share personal details (phone numbers, personal e-mail addresses etc) of Triggertrap staff, or in cases of abusive behaviour.
    We have clarified the circumstances in which we would request Kicsktarter to delete a comment here: https://triggertrap.reamaze.com/articles/faq-where-can-i-contact-triggertrap-why-did-you-delete-my-comment
    That same FAQ also has information on which address to use if you wish to send us information by post.
    Thank you
    Team Triggertrap / Haje

    Creator Triggertrap on March 6
    Since this question comes up every now again, we’ve added an additional FAQ: “Why is Triggertrap not shouldering any of the risk”
    https://triggertrap.reamaze.com/articles/faq-why-is-triggertrap-not-shouldering-any-of-the-risk
    Team Triggertrap

    Domenico Tricarico on March 6
    I believe there is nothing to do guys, they are planned well this fraude from the beginning. we have been cheated, with the complicity of kickstarter. What we can do is avoid backing other kickstarter’s projects (maybe they will understand that they can not turn a blind eye and pocketing only their commission) and persecute triggertrap posting the truth on any webpage speaks, in the future, of their products. Haje, it’s horrible that triggertrap not assume any responsibility on business risk passing this only to us. It’s not the way it works the crowd funding. This is fraude. Your company should take his responsibilities, refund money and then quit. I hope TT will fail and close soon anyway. I already have a damn mobile dongle e and I will not accept any of your stupid proposals. A lot of backers will keep in silence, backers, if we want to try something we have to organize better than a reddit group… we need a lawyer and a real plan … otherwise all this will end in nothing…if there was a divine justice haje would remain sitting on the toilet for at least 10 years

    Creator Triggertrap on March 5
    Guys, we’ve had a few questions from people who are wondering where people are discussing among the backers. Is http://www.reddit.com/r/backertrap/ the best URL to give them, or is there a closed Facebook group or similar we should direct people to?
    Team Triggertrap / Haje

    Tan Meng Keat on March 5
    I agree for backers in UK please take class suit against them and also Kickstarter. Each and everyone should be held responsible if in future this type of funding site keep growing!

    Paul Brown on March 5
    This comment has been removed by Kickstarter.

    Andreas on March 5
    This comment has been removed by Kickstarter.

    Paul Brown on March 5
    @Andreas – If you know how to set it up maybe you should do it then invite people in.

    Andreas on March 5
    we actually only need one backer in the UK who is willing to bring this to court. we can “sell” our pledges to him/her which would quickly get this into regions where courts are quite interessted. if only 10 backers are willing to do so, this would make a appr. 1000GBP claim. As the situation is exactly the same for all backers, this should be a quite easy way to go. even for non UK/EU backers. sure, we probably only get back a small part of the pledge, but at least we get a clear statement about what to expect from future kickstarter projects.
    do we have a reddit/facebook group yet to move the discussion over? or a simple mail address like suggested? it would be great to know the exact amount of people who don’t want to accept the 20% “offer”.

    Arne Borgan on March 5
    @shreds count me in… (im based in Norway)

    Jean MARTIN on March 5
    This comment has been removed by Kickstarter.

    Stephen Cottle on March 5
    I will email you about the miops when I get home.
    A works colleague sis in law, is in to law if some one can draft a good letter stating all the issues from the start including ToS Eric I will pas it on and see what she sees in it.

    Stuart c wegenka on March 5
    @shreds, Can I be included in the email loop? I’ve been had before but every time the company has folded. The sheer arrogance of TT astounds me that they would continue to sell the same project that was developed with our money. I want to join in a lawsuit and will help with whatever I can. We need to drive them in the ground.

    Paul Brown on March 5
    Miops Alternative – PLease let me know who is interested asap
    Hi Guys, I have been in discussion with MIOPS – They may be able to offer us a special campaign so that we do end up with a product of sorts. I know a few people have already mentioned this. PLease email me at adaoptions@gmail.com listing your interest. The more people interested the better discount. PLease post this to any other ADA Discussion forum. I do not want the email to be used for anything negative to TT as it is simply to collect interest in an alternative.
    Miops have said –
    ‘We have 2 option. First one is for our current product Miops NT, which has lower value according to Miops Smart. We can ship it asap since we have already in our stock. The second option is Miops Smart but it will be available by next month. We can prepare 2 different campaign with good discount if we reach huge number of buyer.’
    Again let me know if interested at adaoptions@gmail.com

    Rudy Coevert on March 5
    @boudewijn drenkelford in their fag page they say:
    We still need to include the licences and package up everything for release. We expect to have this completed by the end of March 2015 – stay tuned.
    I’m also writing in the forum haje opened for the diy kits. for me the dongle has absolutely not all the options that I want (and speed).

    Just like you I want to get the most out of it for myself, for now that is a option to still get an ada.

    Paul Brown on March 5
    I had a great one from TT at 2am this morning. Came to me as ‘Friends of Triggertrap’ from ‘Sad Team Triggertrap’ saying they had removed my email address from their list :-) totally unprovoked I may add.

    Simon Ho on March 5
    20% refund is a bullshit. Let’s take it to the court.

    Jonathan Murray on March 5
    Not sure if everyone saw Haje Jan Kamps’s public mea culpa published on Medium here: https://medium.com/@Haje/how-a-half-million-dollar-kickstarter-project-can-crash-and-burn-5482d7d33ee1 Not sure what his intent was but it just made me even more angry to the point that I felt compelled to write a response: https://medium.com/@adamalthus/funding-incompetence-1349f4663f4c

    Allan Aylard on March 5
    Great news from TriggerTrap, I received this email from them today.
    “You earned the First Anniversary badge.
    Thanks for sticking with us for a full year. +5 points

    Follow the link below to check it out:
    http://forum.triggertrap.com/badge/anniversary
    Have a great day!”
    Somehow I don’t think I’m as happy about it as they are.

    Creator Triggertrap on March 5
    Hey everyone,
    A few of you were asking why we aren’t sending out the Triggertrap Mobile kits that are part of some backer levels.
    Good question, and sorry we haven’t addressed that so far – here’s the FAQ: https://triggertrap.reamaze.com/articles/faq-why-aren-t-you-sending-out-the-cables-dongles-that-were-part-of-the-backer-rewards
    Team Triggertrap

    Creator Triggertrap on March 5
    Hey – Some of you were asking about a DIY / Kit version of Triggertrap Ada.
    Very interesting idea! Our focus for now is on processing refunds and open-sourcing the project, but we’ve put together a FAQ about a potential kit version here: https://triggertrap.reamaze.com/kb/triggertrap-redsnap/faq-would-it-be-possible-to-make-a-kit-diy-version-of-ada . In the FAQ, there’s a link to a forum thread. We would love to hear what the idea for a Kit version would look like.
    Team Triggertrap

    Manfred Winter on March 5
    Interesting to see that Kickstarter (allegedly?) comments on Interpretations to their Terms to Creators, but not to backers! Anyway, the issue will be resolved at the courts probably, but I have learned my lesson and will stop using Kickstarter in the future, after more than 80 backed projects, with a total amount pledged over 10000$. I experienced delays, some less than stellar products, and lots of great results. One other Hardware project I backed folded in similar ways like yours (https://www.kickstarter.com/…/life-spot-powerful-solution), but they refunded me 100% of the money.

    Sebastian Najnert on March 5
    @shreds you have my support.
    I am an international backer.

    Philip Kwong on March 5
    Well said @MDDCFlyer

    MDDCFlyer on March 5
    @Sharry Thomas – I have backed many Kickstarter projects, many of them I really did not expect return on the funding. Many of them upfront are to support an artistic project, pay for time and effort, etc – and that is perfectly fine.
    But when a company is asking for funding the expectations are different. You pre-pay for a potential product and support its development. The product might flop, that is a risk we all take – but the expectation is that the company will flop with it. There must be some skin in the game for the company as well.
    The problem with this project is that it was based on fraudulent statement – TT admitted they needed double the money they requested to complete the project. The amount of money one requests is a key indicator for risk for potential backers. The misinformation continued throughout the development period with assurance of delivery just days before TT knew the project is doomed.
    So yes, there is a risk in backing on Kickstarter, but the risk has to be shared with the company as well – in this case they just bore the advantages of free money but none of the risks. And all based on false statements.
    I am tempted to submit a claim for the small claim court. I find it hard to believe they actually send someone to defend themselves in the USA and the claim will be granted by default, and if not, it would be worth it just see what defense they will come up with in court. Of course, collecting will be a different issue.

    David Lewinsohn on March 5
    Hi Backer,
    I have a question:
    If we take TT to court can TT legally use our remaining money to fund their court case?
    If so, where does that leave us?

    ndnihil on March 5
    More PR:
    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/03/04/kickstarter_triggertrap/

    Sid on March 5
    @shreds count me in…
    I am in Australia so can only provide online assistance.

    ndnihil on March 5
    If anyone would like a non-KS place to discuss the situation, you(anyone not affiliated with TT) are all welcome to use my IRC/chat service available here:
    https://ndnihil.org/tt
    There is a web client for the less techy types.

    Richard J R Fletcher on March 5
    @Charles Clee
    This is exactly my view, the issue being that TT want to continue to protect the exisiting business. However, at no time is there any indication that the development of Ada is a separate business so how can TT expect the backers to accept the loss paraphrasing “its the risk you take on Kickstarter” but continue to operate a going concern. How do they reconcile the acounts other than expect the backers to take 20% and in that discharge any obligation to provide the finish item/fullrefund.

    Charles Clee on March 5
    This seems to me a case of UK corporate governance. TT I assume are a UK LTD company, in which case it is the liability of the shareholder that is limited, not the directors. I am not a lawyer, but I am a company director, and my understanding of my responsibilities is that the directors responsibilities are to manage the company in its long term interests, taking account of its obligations to its stakeholders which include (in no particular order) shareholders, employees and creditors. So one could argue that from a corporate perspective the TTP team have faced up to their obligations. However, when the rules change is when a company can potentially no longer meet its creditor’s liabilities. In which case the emphasis changes from the long term interest of the company, to the interests of the creditors under the UK corporate governance code. In effect, this project has been trading insolvently, in that it has little or no prospect of meeting it’s obligations to the creditors – us. If this was due to incompetence then this constitutes wrongful trading, if it was by design then it is fraud. It depends on whether they were so inept that they suddenly woke up one morning and realised that far from being able to deliver as they claimed, that they were now effectively bust, or had realised earlier that they were hopelessly beyond their budgeted expenditure but sought to achieve a particular milestone before they exposed it and so had deliberately misled is. As part of this, it is not down to audited accounts in my amateur opinion, rather board minutes and emails which one would expect to be disclosable to stakeholders and lawyers. The simple question is whether this is wrongful, or fraudulent, and whether the KS T&C’s protect the directors from their obligations under the UK Corporate Governance Code. So my view is that the liability sits not with the company per se, but the directors, and whether they have exercised their fiduciary responsibilities to their creditors in line with their obligations. If the view is that the creditor obligations are trumped by the KS T&Cs then we are scr@wed, if not then we should insist on full disclosure with a view to suing the directors for our loss. Anyone a UK corporate lawyer? C2

    Fraser Coleman on March 5
    @shreds count me in too.

    David Lewinsohn on March 5
    @shreds – Count me in as well.
    I live in Australia, so I do not know how much assistance I can provide?
    The fact is TT knowingly misrepresented their financial position and the likely completion of the ADA project.
    I find it completely unacceptable that the Backers (us) should have to shoulder all the risk (cost) and TT are able to walk away with a simple “Sorry, we did not realise just what was involved to get Ada to market. We will try harder next time”. Their PR was in fact the reverse. “Trust us. We have done this before. This is not our first Kickstart project. We know what we are doing. Your money is safe with us.”
    Their going forward options are simply unacceptable because TT are not willing to shoulder any additional costs.
    I feel that if TT were to return with an offer of sharing the risk with the backers, we would be open to dialogue with TT.
    It is the arrogant attitude of “Well, we have considered all our options and the ones we have chosen are …..” (because those options will not cost us any more than absolutely necessary) that gets me upset.
    Had they come clean at the beginning, we would not have been misled. Yes, Kickstarter projects fail, but it is hard to come to grips that this project failed due to “lack of funds” when it was overfunded by nearly 500%
    Plainly, we, the backers “have been taken for a ride”. If TT cannot come back with a significantly better offer showing they are sharing the immediate pain, then I will support “taking TT and its CEO for a ride”.
    At the end of the day, it is not the failure of the project that has upset the majority of us backers, it has been the now obvious misleading of the position of the project by TT and its CEO AND TT’s outright rejection to shoulder any personal cost of the failure. (That’s really rubbing salt into the wound.)
    As I stated as the beginning of this message: @shreds – Count me in as well.

    EJ on March 5
    @shreds – I’m in.

    Stephen Cottle on March 5
    they keep quoting the new Tos – write: “If a creator is unable to complete their project and fulfill rewards [they have] only remedied the situation and met their obligations to backers if […] they post an update that explains what work has been done, how funds were used, and what prevents them from finishing the project as planned […] they offer to return any remaining funds to backers who have not received their reward (in proportion to the amounts pledged).”
    Where have they given us a proper break down in expenses? – a pie chart is not good enough

    Rob White on March 5
    Or you can make a £190 donation to my favourite charity.
    It’s “help protect Rob White from con men foundation”
    I can send you the contact details but I’m sure you already have them ;0)

    Rob White on March 5
    @TT, YOU OWN ME £190.
    I’m willing to let you give me the triggertrap mobile & cable kit promised in my deal as well as 3 more, then we can call it quits & get on with our lives.

    David Chuba on March 5
    You misimformed your backers by giving positive update after update and then said, Sorry we mismanaged everything and lost your money. You should at least contribute some of your own money to the refund. I sincerely hope that this causes Triggertrap to go out of business. I will never purchase another product from you and will actively dissuade other photographers from doing so. If I were in the UK I would be taking you to small claims court as you deserve to be. I will also never back another project on kickstarter as they do not seem to want to enforce their own terms of service. Your arrogance and comments in the media have been absolutely disgusting.

    Rob White on March 5
    Kickstarter Support (Kickstarter)
    Mar 4, 14:44
    Hi there,
    Thanks for reaching out. Kickstarter is not able to publicly comment on projects on behalf of the Creator.
    Best,
    Marissa
    I don’t think any of them give a shit once the money’s changed hands.
    I’m not impressed with either parties

    Stephen Cottle on March 5
    The KS are as guilty as TT.

    Richard J R Fletcher on March 5
    Received the copied & pasted response from KS. I suspect that people are thinking “you gambled on KS and lost” However, the reality is a little different in my view. The fact is TT have a production model but failed to manage the project so there was sufficient funds left to make it. So TT get what they wanted out of the project and save the hassle of making it for the supporters who got them there. I guess we would have all be as disapointed in December if the update said the cost of manufacture was higher than expected. However, instead we were fed the line that everything was going well at last and delivery would be in May (I was excited even if it seemed forever away); yet we now know the price could not have been agreed. I suspect the injection models for the cases might in themselves swallow most the the remaining £58k ! But then again TT claimed to have experience of manufacturing in China.
    I doubt I have any fight in me as KS don’t care and TT will no doubt play a long game ensuring as many people drop out of the fight.
    Interesting that KS won’t interpret the TOS for a backer but reportedly offered advice to TT ? If they did then are KS picking a side but yet claiming to be impartial ??

    Stephen Cottle on March 5
    I still think they at least owe us the other Goods that are part of the Kits
    Cables, Dongles etc…. on top to what ever they offer

    Chan Tze Him on March 5
    This comment has been removed by Kickstarter.

    Boudewijn Drenkelford on March 5
    @Rudy Coevert, does TT speak of a timeline to open up the files for ADA? Because even though i disagree for 100% with the way they treat us i really want to get the best out of it.

    Rudy Coevert on March 5
    About DIY Kits I asked TT and got mail back from them.
    I completly believe in the concept of ada.
    their answer:
    Thanks for getting in touch and for being so understanding about the Ada cancellation. We’re sorry that we haven’t been able to deliver Ada to you. Your proposition is an interesting one, but unfortunately not everyone is in your position of being able to print their own casings. On top of that, placing a small order for even some of the parts necessary for Ada would still be very expensive and therefore not something that we can offer to our backers right now. Sorry that we wouldn’t be able to offer this option to you. If you need any advice on assembling Ada once the files are openly available or would like any alternative camera triggering options just let me know.
    Ho many People are here able to make ada from plans and components i’m one maybe if there are enough users we can get components from TT to make our own ADA

    Stephen Cottle on March 5
    @ Steve wood- not eye shuffling more like our backers will pay for this!!!

    Stephen Cottle on March 5
    If they cant interpret their own ToS then i dont think they should have them

    steve wood on March 5
    @Andreas Haha yes me too. I have to laugh, because it is a comedy of errors.
    Not one person is committal about the whole thing!
    I asked if their terms of use were legally binding and got told it was a standalone document
    “Kickstarter cannot offer any interpretations of our Terms of Use ”
    It could be amusing watching the results of a meal out in a restaurant, and see who would pick up the tab. Lots of eye rolling and foot shuffling I think

    Andreas on March 5
    best thing is, kickstarter does not care a bit about this. i sent them an email and – knowing that customer support likes to overread questions in emails longer than two sentences – listed four questions at the end:
    1) Is Triggertrap right with the interpretation of the previous ToS (not the current one, as they don’t apply to previously funded projects), that only the remaining funds have to be refunded, without any detailed and external inspection of the finances?
    2) Is there any liability of the project creators for mishandling kickstarter money?
    3) Will Kickstarter take actions/investigations agains dishonest/fraudulent projects?
    4) Why isn’t there any support from Kickstarter for the backers? Why not even a short email informing us about what happened from your side?
    After getting a canned response, I sent them back the four questions. Their response: Kickstarter cannot offer any interpretations of our Terms of Use — they are a standalone document. Please consult an attorney for further clarification.
    I got this twice. They refused to answer any of my questions. While I can accept that they refuse to answer a questions, it’s just bullshitting customers (and that’s what we are to kickstarter!), that they don’t even try to answer questions 2-4 – which all are just general questions about kickstarter.
    kickstarter is dead to me. they refuse to clearify that there is or isn’t any liability – that’s just a joke… what else is kickstarter here for, when not for answering questions like this?

    Bertus De Leeuw on March 5
    Quote: Steps should include offering refunds, detailing exactly how funds were used, and other actions to SATISFY backers. Well I don’t see a lot of SATISFIED backers here so find a different solution!

    Bertus De Leeuw on March 5
    5 times more than planned for?? the pledge was £50,000 and they got £290,386 ehhmm that’s almost 6 times the money they planned.. so explain please!! And why would I need 6 cables for my canon camera?? This is ridiculous, I feel really deceived by this company! the project was fully funded in 2013 and now in 2015 they come with a refund of 20%???

    Peter Hemming on March 5
    @Sharry Thomas…….Here’s another thought…….Wilful deceit is not a desirable trait and should be challenged.

    Norman Beer on March 5
    Haji,
    KS is not backing up your story that they told you to only issue a partial refund. Until you tell us who you spoke with, and have that person contact us, it didn’t happen.

    Sharry Thomas on March 5
    Here is a thought… Don’t gamble with your money if you will be this upset. This is absolutely absurd. The conclusions people are coming to, my god. I bet some of you have never blamed anything on yourself in your life. They shot for the moon and failed. Everyone fails. You cannot expect them to be perfect. In the medium article Haje puts it perfectly when he relates that some companies spend millions to do something like this. If you can’t stand to lose a few hundred bucks then don’t gamble with it on kickstarter. I know you won’t care and this will fall on deaf ears but I hope you all have wonderful days and at least get a smile from something.

    eric gagnon on March 5
    When I gave my 150 pounds, the KS agreement was that I get a refund if I don’t get my items… That was the KS agreement when i gave my money, I wouldn’t have if no protection because you already failed the first version… And with 5x more money than the original amount needed! :\ I hope that you can find a better solution than buying for 75pounds in your store, I don’t need 6 cables!

    Gareth Lewis on March 5
    It’s a shame this won’t come to fruition; the tone of the updates was positive and I was buoyed by that so it was disappointing to read that only after going so far down the line did they realise the costs were too overwhelming.
    I’m sure TT aren’t rejoicing – the comments here (which are understandable) would have put a stop to that if nothing else. I would like to see a fulfillment of the cable and dongle elements of backer levels at least, since those are already stocked in the store,

    Stephen Cottle on March 5
    @shreds – im in on your proposal

    Minning Xiang on March 5
    Just claimed a chargeback with my bank. See what will happen.

    ari steffen on March 5
    First I was angry. I felt lied to in your updates. Now I am just sad. I really wanted the tools that you promised and I backed. I had big photo shoot plans. I am sad because l love the Kickstarter, and this weakens the platform. I can swallow the loss of money, but the lack of clarity in the updates is shameful.

    Paul Brown on March 5
    Edited
    @shreds – If you setup a closed Facebook page you could have some terms that users need to accept. For example, by requesting access to group you are legally declaring you or any member of your immediate or extended family DO NOT have any connections to the Company Trigger Trap or any member of staff or associate of that company.

    Paul Brown on March 5
    @shreds – If you setup a closed Facebook page you could have some terms that users need to accept. For example, by requesting access to group you are legally declaring you or any member of your immediate or extended fanmily have any connections to the Company Trigger Trap or any member of staff or associate of that company.

    Peter Hemming on March 5
    @shreds ………Perhaps the reposting of your appeal periodically will ensure all backers see the message.
    Extract as follows:-
    ‘Finally I want to move the discussion away from here where things can be removed at will without a trace. If sufficient people are in agreement I will create an email address that people can contact me at and we could start to have appropriate discussions away from the eyes and ears of the people who are defrauding us.’

    Khürt L. Williams on March 5
    If they took money for the pre-orders they will have to FULLY refund that money first before refunding backers or run afoul of consumer laws. That makes me wonder if the safer route for me with future kickstarter projects is to wait until the pre-orders open up.

    Khürt L. Williams on March 5
    @triggertrap
    “We will default to the 50% shop credit option for anyone who doesn’t respond to the form”
    What about people, like me, who didn’t receive the form?

    noktec on March 5
    @JohanGude I have been asking this question since the start myself, but no answers from TT.
    @Triggetrap
    – When do you plan to release the code, design ?
    – Why not make PCBs without plastic cases ?
    – What about DIY kits ?

    Thomas Stoll on March 5
    1) We will default to the 50% shop credit option for anyone who doesn’t respond to the form
    ==> Cool, so I have the possibility to get 4 triggertrap-mobile-kits for my other 3 cameras from other vendors I don’t own at the moment? Or event better I can get 4 times the same for my Sony and I have three backups?
    The idea of a mailadresse whould be good

    Anna Morris on March 5
    @Thomas Greve I agree that it was right to refund them, I just think that their solution to us should be a bit better. They even refused to send me the preorder I made of the TT mobile dongle. I mean, sending out a £16 cable, while a pittance money-wise to the Top-Level I backed, would at least be a decent gesture with the small refund we are getting. A 50% store credit is useless as I could buy every cable they have and still have money in their store left over with the amount I backed, so I am not sure of the point of that option.
    I agree with @Duncan that they seem to be trying to make this a marketing opportunity, and while I get that they are trying to make something good out of this abismal failure, I just don’t see how bailing on the people who gave them £290,386 is the way to go about that.
    Kickstarters fail – it just happens. It’s just so frustrating to go from all-is-great-just-delayed to software-is-ready-still-all-good to nevermind-we-failed-you-are-all-screwed-out-of-your-money. Especially when so many of us were so excited about this product and willing to wait out all of the delays for the Ada.

    Paul Brown on March 5
    @Haje – With regard the prototypes. If there are really NO options for us, the backers to get any product out of this. I suggest (again) that the designs and code are handed over to us and not the general public and ALL prototypes are destroyed and Triggertrap sign a document pertaining to that. Stopping you using that product in any of your (or subsequent future company) designs.

    Johan Gude on March 5
    @Thomas maybe you are right.. :(

    Thomas Greve on March 5
    @Anna: I suppose, that it is correct to refund the pre-orders. We supported the development, the ones placing a pre-order were just buying a product. This does not mean, that it is correct to just offer us to return the mere remains…
    @Johan: HJK realized, that this product cannot easily be sold (and make him rich), as the production costs would make the retail price too high. So, of course he _could_ do quite a lot with the results, but as is, he is simply not interested. Neither to invest any further time and money, nor to consider any suggestion that does not let him out fast and easy.

    Duncan Moffat on March 5
    “Failing to deliver to our 2,000 Kickstarter backers would also mean letting down all our other customers, who are currently out there, using Triggertrap Mobile to take timelapse videos, sound-triggered photography, and are actively creating amazing photography.”
    Haje is trying to turn this into a marketing opportunity. This is a quote from DPReview. The guy is clueless.
    I don’t get why they are still ignoring the suggestions that people have made here. Why didn’t you try to be honest and tell people that you were short of money? If you were transparent from the start people might have been willing to up their investment instead of loosing 80% of the money with nothing to show for it. I think it is time for Haje to step aside and let someone else run the company, or at least manage the response to this fiasco.

    Paul Brown on March 5
    @shreds – or a facebook group?

    Johan Gude on March 5
    @triggertrap I still can’t understand why making some sort of diy kit (or pre assembled pcb’s without a housing) with the remaining money is not an option. It would also mean you can sell Ada to others if people are satisfied here.

    Anna Morris on March 5
    “That is because we’ve refunded everyone who placed a pre-order after the Kickstarter project was finished.”
    They get a full refund, but we do not?! That seems horribly unfair. Because they missed the boat and didn’t make the KS deadline they get rewarded by actually getting their money back. We tried to support you and we get screwed by only getting 20% back. Man I wish I had missed the KS deadline now!!!

    Simon Ho on March 5
    @shreds,
    I support your legal action, let me know what I can help?
    backer from Hong Kong

    Chan Tze Him on March 5
    And on Nov, 2014, it’s said that :
    Our CEO gives the Triggertrap Ada plastics a goodbye hug before we send them off to our manufacturers

    Paul Brown on March 5
    @shreds, why not setup a new gmail address and publish it so we can all at least send email names etc.
    If it gets removed we can keep publishing so people can find it

    Chan Tze Him on March 5
    And the founder, bought a house in 2014, maybe that’s where our money went to.

    Paul Brown on March 5
    I have asked via email, directly now (Twice) that the code and designs are NOT issued open source but should be given to backers.

    Chan Tze Him on March 5
    I am suspecting that they are (or someone else) is going to release the exact product with a different name. All the backers are fool, they just pay the money and get nothing.

    Chan Tze Him on March 5
    @shreds, I am in too. I am from Hong Kong, I can really do nothing now. The whole thing is just fucking ridiculous

    Matthew Humphreys on March 5
    @shreds Many thanks for volunteering

    Mark Gamble on March 5
    @shreds a great idea ~ I’m in ..

    Mark Gamble on March 4
    I’m not prepared to be forced to take a store credit for taking my time to decide how to proceed.
    I therefore wish to have a full refund please.

    Joe Reynolds on March 4
    Haje/TT: RE the message stating that anyone that hasn’t responded will shortly be assumed to want the store credit as their preferred method of refund… Why are we being held to a time limit?
    Also, I might be wrong in my reasoning behind this, but I’m feeling quite aggrieved that you’re proposing to just give away the sum total of your (our) investment by publishing everything online for free so that people may make their own. Have you not approached other companies and attempted to sell the results of the R&D in order to make your investors back as much of their money as possible?

    Paul Brown on March 4
    @shreds, I am in.

    Thomas Greve on March 4
    @shreds I’m in. How do you want to collect our responses? Here?

    Hugh Beauchamp on March 4
    @John Ungar – Triggertrap V1 is no longer available from the store, only camera dongles for the mobile app.
    @Haje/triggertrap, are there any plans to make a version of v1 (or even the arduino shield) available to buy ever again? The laser sensor was my primary interest in Ada, but there’s no way to do that with mobile. It would certainly make my £95 store credit much more useful, as there are only so many cables (which I already own anyway) that I need.
    I’ve been holding fire on commenting or taking any action as I’ve been waiting to see what the outcome of the discussions will be. However, I have to say that my single biggest disappointment has been the level of communication from Triggertrap, especially the upbeat tone of recent updates given that the financial situation was known at the end of last year.
    Haje, you have continually avoided answering some specific questions around the use of the funds, specifically:
    1. Were staff members and contractors paid using Kickstarter funds working exclusively on Ada?
    2. You have listed development costs and staff & contractor costs separately. Can you clarify this? You’ve stated that you contracted development to an external agency. Should this not fall under “contractors”? Should any development time in-house not fall under “staff”?
    3. You’ve stated that you knew your original Kickstarter funding goal of £50,000 was not going to be enough to complete the project, that £100k would be needed, and that you set it low for PR reasons. Is this not a clear violation of Kickstarter’s terms of service for project creators?

    Rob White on March 4
    @shreds I’m up for helping out with that any way I can.

    Peter Hemming on March 4
    @shreds Your strategy proposal has my support. The charlatans at Triggertrap should not benefit at our expense!

    Rob White on March 4
    You refunded their money!
    How good of you ;o)
    Thanks for that little gem.

    Shreds on March 4
    Thanks Alexander, I shall give it a day or two to assess the response rate.

    Alexander Brandt on March 4
    @shreds I like your idea. I am no lawyer, but I would support you.

    Shreds on March 4
    Some more details:-
    The company is registered (probably with an accountant or letterbox address at No.1 London Bridge, SE1 9BG
    Co. Reg No. 07742161)
    I am seeing a client for other reasons on the same road as TTs London Office address in Islington soon, so feel I should pay TT a visit. Does anyone want to join me?
    What I would say is that whinging on an internet board is unlikely to get any results. We all need to now quickly take action.
    Has everyone put in their response to TT? How you respond to that is your call, but partial refunds etc may compromise your ability to go down the legal route. My own view is 20% is derisory and an insult so I want to see a 100% refund.
    BUT DO IT NOW.
    I am not a lawyer but do have some legal training. If any backers are in that position to offer representation or advice to backers could they make themselves known to the rest of us.
    I am prepared to write letters on behalf of other backers but would appreciate it even more if a qualified lawyer were to assist.
    Finally I want to move the discussion away from here where things can be removed at will without a trace. If sufficient people are in agreement I will create an email address that people can contact me at and we could start to have appropriate discussions away from the eyes and ears of the people who are defrauding us.
    So there is the offer, I need assistance with this from everyone else, but I feel so aggrieved as to the attitude of the TT, even now as if they are whiter than white, that legal action is inevitable and I am happy to fire the starting pistol.

    John Ungar on March 4
    As a backer who is out 150 bucks, I think many of the comments from annoyed backers are over the top. Did they make mistakes and have rubbish comms; yes. But they have put their hands up for this, which isn’t what a lot of project owners do.
    50% store credit is way better than other failed projects. And as the original trigger trap is still a good bit of kit, it will deliver many of the things I was looking for from Ada.
    I understand and share others annoyance, but all the legal threats are a bit sad. We should have a bit of empathy for the trigger trap guys who realise they f’ed up and probably feel more gutted than us.

    Troy Jones on March 4
    Ps the kickstarter project was unfinished…

    Troy Jones on March 4
    @triggertrap with what/who’s money?

    Creator Triggertrap on March 4
    @Rob White “I see no accounting for the income from pre order sale ”
    That is because we’ve refunded everyone who placed a pre-order after the Kickstarter project was finished.

    Rob White on March 4
    On the lovely pie chart I see no accounting for the income from pre order sale through the TT web site that appeared to have sold out?
    http://shop.triggertrap.com/products/triggertrap-ada
    Pre-orders now sold out! Sorry about that!

    Troy Jones on March 4
    @Fraser under the distance and online selling regulations in the UK you can return anything you purchase online for a refund with out even a reason.
    https://www.gov.uk/online-and-distance-selling-for-businesses/overview
    But I would imagine Haje will say you brought them with store credits so you have to have store credits back.. I don’t where you stand legally if there is nothing in the store you want to buy…

    Fraser Coleman on March 4
    @troy, fully agree. If enough people start the process then it might make TT change their tune. All we need us someone willing to draft a submission for us all to use.
    Another option, has anyone thought about getting the 50% store credit option, spending it all and then returning it all for a full cash refund?

    Troy Jones on March 4
    Another 20% at the end of the year.. Carrot and string theory springs to mind…

    Jean MARTIN on March 4
    I have not seen any reviews of a backer who is satisfied with one of your proposal.
    You must propose a debt repayment plan based on a percentage of your business income.

    Thomas Greve on March 4
    To be more precise: What about an “Argentina” option: 20% now or 40% by the end of the year. One tranche and the increased risk of getting nothing because you have been sued to the ground by then. (Just to avoid confusion: “end of the year” means Dec 2015, not May 2016.)

    Shreds on March 4
    I entirely agree with Tim Mackey, but if any of you guys at TT think you re going to get away with this…..think again.
    You have defrauded a lot of people. Do the right thing. Liquidate your other businesses and assets and pay a reasonable sum back to those who had faith in you.
    Not just the miserly 20% you haven’t spent.
    You guys owe us big time and we are going to follow you to the ends of the earth to get it. Don’t think you can hide.
    You made the mistakes. But seem unable to admit to them. So change the attitude and act like grown ups.

    Matthew Thomas on March 4
    Edit- in the comment below I meant misapplication not ‘misappropriation’. Damn autocorrect!

    Thomas Greve on March 4
    “This may be appropriate to some backers, but others would disagree…”
    Maybe you should give your backers the choice by widening the number of options?

    Matthew Thomas on March 4
    “Not to mention that it seems that, from the comments, quite a few of our backers are considering legal action, and are determined to destroy my company.”
    No Haje, it’s you that are determined to destroy your company through a complete and total lack of management skill and finesse! To suggest that anyone else is responsible for that is a pure insult to anyone involved in the backing of this project. Every single person here believed so adamantly in your company and you that they gave a not insubstantial amount of their hard earned money to help you succeed. Through no fault of their own and through incredible mismanagement and misappropriation of funds they have been left with no option other than to request that YOU take the costs for YOUR mistakes! Grow up Haje and realise that this is nobodies fault but your own and any consequences sit squarely on your shoulders. If you don’t understand this concept, then you don’t understand your own position and its responsibilities.

    Paul Brown on March 4
    @troy – I agree. If a wordsmith can draft a piece, we can all use it for Small Claims.
    @Haje – Please stop telling us how wonderful you are at ‘Carrying the costs’ for the gigantic balls up you made. My heart bleeds for your staff.

    Troy Jones on March 4
    Brilliant email Tim!
    In the UK it costs just £25 to take some to the small claims court for a claim amount up to £300.
    I think it’s worth it just out of principle. If he wants a fight then will cost him more in legal fees to just settle with you. It dint have to go down this road but his approach to us is totally disgusting and insulting keeping us in the dark all this time so he can create a media storm he is busy writing articles online to boost ego and publicity for is next book deal.. “How our $500k Kickstarter campaign crashed and burned”
    He has personally gained from us not even willing to personally foot some of the loss or show some remorse.

    We have proven Haje has lied and made false claims to nothing short of a scam.
    I’m sure once HMRC get wind of a £290k investment to a uk limited company he is going to need more that a pie chart to satisfy them that the money hasn’t been laundered..
    If any one is good with words and could come up with a case with all the facts for a court to understand that could be shared

    Creator Triggertrap on March 4
    Tim: The only way we’d be able to afford to pay out *more* than our current refund offering, is to delay the refund process significantly.
    At the moment, we have 20% of the £290k left. It would potentially be possible to ‘share the cost’, as you suggest, but for the sake of argument, say that we were to agree to save up another £58k would take us the rest of the year. This may be appropriate to some backers, but others would disagree, and would prefer the money now, which kicks off a whole other discussion about how we should have handled this. Not to mention that it seems that, from the comments, quite a few of our backers are considering legal action, and are determined to destroy my company. If that threat is made real, then there wouldn’t be any refunds, which would also not be fair.
    It might have been possible to pay out 20% now, and another 20% towards the end of the year, but there are non-negligible costs involved with doing the refunds (time & processing fees – we estimate it will cost us closer to 150 man-hours to process the refunds, plus there are costs involved with issuing refunds), and doubling it in order to pay out in two tranches is not really an option. Before you ask: We are carrying those costs; they are not included in the Ada cost.
    I’m really sorry that the solution we’ve chosen is not ideal for everybody, but we feel that by offering 4 different options from people to choose from, everyone is able to pick the option that’s closest to waht their ideal solution is.
    Team Triggertrap / Haje

    Sebastian Kennerknecht on March 4
    Couldn’t agree more with Tim Mackey!

    Tim Mackey on March 4
    To TriggerTrap, I really do feel sympathy for the situation you are in—it really does suck. There isn’t an easy way out of it, and I would not wish on you that your business should fail and that all of your employees go jobless. What I cannot accept, though, is the lack of responsibility that you are taking for the failure. As I stated in my email to kickstarter, why are we shouldering 100% of the cost of your failed R&D while you get to walk away with no harm done to yourself aside from lost time? A full refund may not be possible, but we deserve more than just what is left of OUR money. You should be sharing the cost equally with us. At the moment, you are not bearing any of the cost.

    Creator Triggertrap on March 4
    Two quick practical things to address specific queries:
    1) We will default to the 50% shop credit option for anyone who doesn’t respond to the form
    2) I’m afraid the only refund options available are those described in the e-mail you received. I appreciate that some of you are unhappy with anything less than a 100% refund, but that is not an option we’re able to fulfil, which is why we aren’t offering it.
    If you haven’t received the e-mail mentioned above, please contact us on hello@triggertrap.com and we can resend it. We will also send out a reminder to everyone who hasn’t submitted our refund form yet later in the month.
    Team Triggertrap / Haje

    Tim Mackey on March 4
    No problem, Matthew—reading it again, it could have used some proof-reading ;)

    Matthew Humphreys on March 4
    @ TIm Mackay. I hope you don’t mind, but I thought your email was so well written, that I’ve also sent it to Kickstarter (with a few changes) to see if we get similar responses! I am yet to receive any feedback from my original email 2 days ago.

    Andreas on March 4
    everybody not accepting any of the “refund” options: remember to inform triggertrap that you don’t accept any of the four options and request a full refund. as they’re quite creative in the interpretation of contracts, they’ll probably just assume that you wanted to donate your money to triggertrap..

    Jean-Yves HERVÉ on March 4
    Thank you for the links, Timothy and David.

    Paul Brown on March 4
    For those of you in Europe – Try here http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/shopping/unfair-treatment/unfair-commercial-practices/index_en.htm
    UK Link here – http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/archive/ecc/contact_en.htm
    Apologies to TT staff but CEO is so arrogant, He cannot get away with this, They have not responded to 2 of my emails so don’t know what they are doing

    Creator Triggertrap on March 4
    Just a quick note on people claiming we delete comments: I would never authorise any deletion of comments or any discourse, and I’ve instructed everyone involved in this project not to delete anything.
    There are 2 exceptions to this rule:
    1) We’re people, too, and we have a right not to tolerate abuse. Any abusive or threatening behaviour will be reported and deleted.
    2) Any personal contact details will be deleted.
    If you would like to discuss in public, that is fine, and we will try to respond as much as time will allow. If you’d like to contact us directly, please use hello@triggertrap.com. This is as much to ensure that all the e-mails get a reply, and to ensure that we have internal visibility over the discussions that are ongoing.
    Thank you
    Haje Jan Kamps
    CEO, Triggertrap

    Sebastian Kennerknecht on March 4
    From TT “If we only had £100k to work with, the Ada project would have ground to a halt much earlier, and the problems we were facing wouldn’t have been masked by the money we in the bank account at the beginning of the project.”
    Take RESPONSIBILITY for your inability to manage this product. It was not the money’s fault….

    Sebastian Kennerknecht on March 4
    Not sure how much writing to kickstarter will do. Sure they want to keep up the community, but they put in quite a lot of steps to protect us backers. It’s not our fault or Kickstarter’s that TT lied their way through most of this process…TT needs to step up and pay us back in full.

    Tim Mackey on March 4
    I sent this email to kickstarter, but thought I would post it here as well. Triggertrap’s current proposal is unacceptable—a full refund may not be possible, but as far as I can tell we the backers are shouldering the entire cost of failure of this project, while Triggertrap loses nothing but time.
    “After months and months of positive updates form Triggertrap, and no indications whatsoever of monetary problems, Triggertrap suddenly announced two days ago that they didn’t have enough money to complete the project, and they are cancelling their project and will not be delivering the rewards that they promised to backers. I’m completely shocked by the solution that they are proposing (A 20% refund, or 50% store credit which can’t even be spent because buying everything in their store would cost less than that, or the completely laughable suggestion that we just let them keep the money). They are shielding themselves from any responsibility at all for the failure of their project, and instead shifting all of the harm onto the backers themselves. How is it that we the backers can all lose over $200 to $400 dollars (over 30% of which went to wages, we have been informed), and the project team loses nothing whatsoever aside from a somewhat tarnished reputation? Why are we the ones shouldering 100% of the risk?
    In the past few days it has become apparent that Triggertrap has misled backers from the very beginning of the project. In their “FAQ”, they admit to falsifying the amount of money that was required to complete the project for the sake of “PR and excitement (See: https://triggertrap.reamaze.com/kb/triggertrap-redsnap/faq-how-is-it-possible-to-fail-when-you-asked-for-50k-in-your-kickstarter-goal-but-received-290k). They also gave the impression that they were much closer to a finished product than they actually were—they promised that there would be a ”design freeze” in place immediately after the campaign ended, meaning that no new features would be added and that the only thing left was prototyping and testing. Instead, however, they decided to upgrade to a fancier micro controller so they could have a better user interface, which led to months of delays and the eventual failure of the project.
    The thing is, up until two days ago, we were not aware that there was any financial problem, aside from a number of delays. In December, Triggertrap announced a firm shipping date of May 2015, with the attitude that everything was going just fine. Suddenly, two days ago, we find out that they “don’t have enough money left” to complete the project, because they have discovered that the bill of materials is to high. How the heck were they able to announce a firm shipping date when they hadn’t even gotten material cost quotes form their manufacturers? It defies belief!
    I could go on, but I’ll just end by saying this. Triggertrap says that the only option they have left is to give what remaining money they have from the project budget, and part ways. They admit that they have a successful business with their other projects (part of which was built up during the span of this kickstarter project), but say that they don’t want to risk the rest of their business in trying to finish this project. They have taken no monetary losses upon themselves, are taking no responsibility for their actions, and instead are shifting all of the loss onto us, the backers. Not only that, but they are keeping the prototypes that were developed with our money, and intend to use them for their future financial gain (In their own words: https://triggertrap.reamaze.com/kb/triggertrap-redsnap/faq-what-are-you-doing-with-the-prototypes-can-i-buy-one) This is simply unacceptable, they are not fulfilling the agreement that they made with us via the Terms of Service, and we the backers are being fleeced. They must be made to take an equal share in the fallout of their failure, instead of placing all of that loss on our shoulders.
    Sincerely,
    Tim Mackey”

    Diego von Bernath on March 4
    If you realize about this on December 2014… why did you announce that it was ready to be shipped on May? To get more money and fuck more people?
    Did you spend some of our money since that day? Maybe we could be receiving a incredible 22% refund.

    Isaiah Tanenbaum on March 4
    Is someone taking screen grabs of these FAQs? I can’t imagine that’s going to stay up for very long as it so clearly is a violation of the KS terms.

    David Lewinsohn on March 4
    I also submitted a detailed request to Kickstarter to try to “act on the Backers” behalf and put pressure on Triggertrap to either put steps in place to deliver the goods in full OR provide a full refund.
    The more us backers complain to Kickstarter, the more they will take note.
    Any venting of anger should not be directed at Kickstarter, but you could imply that they share some of the “blame” as they are the Agent that allowed this product to be promoted to us for financial backing..

    David Lewinsohn on March 4
    This link will also assist.
    https://triggertrap.reamaze.com/kb/triggertrap-redsnap/faq-doesn-t-the-kickstarter-terms-of-service-say-you-have-to-give-a-full-refund

    Timothy Buck on March 4
    Can’t wait for HJK’s next talk. How to lie to your Kickstarter backers until the very end!

    Timothy Buck on March 4
    https://triggertrap.reamaze.com/kb/triggertrap-redsnap/faq-how-is-it-possible-to-fail-when-you-asked-for-50k-in-your-kickstarter-goal-but-received-290k

    Jean-Yves HERVÉ on March 4
    Trying to submit a report to KS and because somehow it seems KS has a hard-on for HJK and TT, I want to make sure that my report doesn’t contain “unsubstantiated claims.” Somehow I can’t find anymore the site where HJK was bragging about deliberately underestimating development costs just to improve “overachieving” buzz. Could some kind soul please provide a link? TiA.

    ndnihil on March 4
    One more report to KS. I wont be backing any further projects until more backer protection is in place, and there is a more thorough review of new projects and their creators. I fully agree with banning anyone associated with TT.

    Timothy Buck on March 4
    Sent a note to Kickstarter as well. Triggertrap and the CEO should be banned from the platform. It’s okay to fail. It’s not okay to lie about the current state of a project and not deliver.

    Matthew Thomas on March 4
    @craftypics: thanks for the advice. That’s exactly what I intend to do. If the company does go under then nobody will anything so I’ve nothing to lose really. I’ll buy a few mobile dongles and give one to a friend :)

    MDDCFlyer on March 4
    I got the same response from KS and wrote back asking clarification whether they have endorsed a partial refund to TT. I doubt I will get an answer but at least I’ll be on record asking.

    Craftypics on March 4
    @Matthew Thomas – the problem I see with the 50% Store Credit is twofold. Firstly there is very little to get apart from bunches of cables and secondly if Triggertrap go under you will end up with nothing. If you have taken store credit then get what you can now before the ship sinks

    Craftypics on March 4
    I think it was a blanket response from Kickstarter. I have replied to their canned response so hopefully I get a proper response and not a cut ‘n’ paste but I doubt it. Kickstarter have their cash ( 5%). Triggertrap have their 80% now all used up with nothing to show for it and us the investors are left to pay for it all

    Dennis van Velsen on March 4
    @Stephen Laws
    I have written a similar email to Kickstarter, and received a similar reply.
    I’ve yet again replied that we, the backers, are the community, and if Kickstarter doesn’t take any interest in this misappropriation of money, if not outright fraud, it will have consequences not just for Triggertrap, but also for the credibility of Kickstarter.
    I hope they will take an interest, and if not, I guess we will have to show them we expect more by no longer using their site. Alternatives aplenty.

    Stephen Laws on March 4
    I also sent feedback to Kickstarter with the following:
    Hello, I was made aware today that the Triggertrap ADA project was being cancelled and that a partial refund was being offered. According to the company, Kickstarter has agreed that a 20% refund is acceptable even though the terms of service indicate otherwise. I am looking for a response from Kickstarter. Based on the latest update, I believe that the Triggertrap team has been dishonest to all backers and has tarnished not only their reputation but also that of Kickstarter.
    Thank you
    Response from Kickstarter:
    Hi there,
    As the creators and stewards of Kickstarter, we hate more than anything when a project doesn’t come to fruition. Allowing creators to take risks and attempt to bring something new to life is the backbone of what we do. However, we also understand that there is an inherent level of risk in any creation process.
    Kickstarter is built around minimizing that risk through all-or-nothing funding, which allows the collective voice of the people to decide which projects reach their goal. On our end, we review projects, uphold our rules (link to kickstarter.com/rules), practice careful governance, and use anti-fraud filtering. The foundation of the entire system, however, is the collective wisdom of the people who back projects.
    Still, despite a creator’s best efforts, some projects won’t always come together as planned. In these situations we make ourselves available to creators to help however we can, and we encourage them to be as open as possible with their backers about the obstacles they face. But no matter our efforts, projects will sometimes fail to come together as planned and backers will sometimes be disappointed in outcomes. We strive to constantly learn from this, and to make sure that expectations are appropriately set for backers (like on our Trust & Safety page).
    While we are unable to refund backers on behalf of a creator, f you have feedback on ways that we can improve this experience and more appropriately set expectations, please let us know. It’s our mission to make sure that Kickstarter is a place where folks can launch and support projects with confidence and excitement.
    Best,
    Katherine

    Dennis van Velsen on March 4
    This comment has been removed by Kickstarter.

    Jesus Haces on March 4
    As another top-tier backer, I’ve reported the project to KS using the bottom form at the main page and hope other backers do as well, maybe we could get KS’s support in getting full refunds.
    We at least have a case for false claims, as many other backers have -more eloquently than I could- stated. We’ve been misled and lied to. I sincerely hope that more people report this to KS or whatever consumer protection agency they can, which would be a step-up from this forum and perhaps we could get a better response than what TT has been offered: a big “screw you! we wasted all your money and now it’s either take a sad 20% and we keep the interests haha! or take 50% in already-inflated store credit so we can profit even more from selling you cables you won’t need” The “give to our own charity” is so blatantly abusive it hardly deserves a mention, and so far I don’t see anyone vocally telling TT to pocket our money “because you guys sure tried!” as stated.

    Bill on March 4
    Almost certainly a total waste of my time, but I sent this heartfelt email to Kickstarter:
    “As an enthusiastic backer of 45 projects – most of them with rewards successfully delivered – I regret to say I will no longer be backing any more projects. I fully understand the game and the risks involved, but the recent failure of the TriggerTrap Ada project has changed my opinion about my role. I think there are much better ways for me to direct my funds to worthy ideas. I’m not sure what Kickstarter can, if anything, do to retain backers like me. I’ve been deep inside the high-tech world for over 40 years. I’ve seen many enterprises come and go and feel confident that KS is on the way out unless you can very quickly institute better protections for backers. ”

    Matthew Thomas on March 4
    have begrudgingly taken the 50% store credit option as I don’t think the chances of a lawsuit recovering anything significant are very good at all. At least this way I will have some products to show for my investment. Haje; you are utterly inept and I sincerely hope for the sake of your team that you do not remain in your position after this debacle! The “everything’s great, it’s coming soon” attitude that was displayed in previous updates was utterly unacceptable given the condition of the project at that point in time. If you had been honest and upfront and sincerely asked for extra money from all the backers, I have no doubt that you could have raised the requisite amount required to conclude production; all be it at no profit to yourselves. You could then have continued to produce the product and sold it at a profit. With regard to the delay in replying to comments and emails, if you hadn’t surmised that this would be the response before posting the update and therefore bolstered your staffing to cope with demand, you and your ‘head of happiness’ are even more incapable that I could ever have given you credit for!!

    David Rodrigue on March 4
    Last two paragraphs of my previous posts are a repetition of the first two… apologies, mistake.

    David Rodrigue on March 4
    Here is my view, probably expressed in too many words. I am not familiar with comments section etiquette regarding the length of comments, and I apologize for it.
    What seems to be happening here is that TT is prioritizing replying to email one-by-one in order to seal as many refunds as possible in the shortest possible time along their frankly derogatory refund options. Many, I would suspect most, backers were probably left dumbfounded by the initial project failure message and refund options. Most who do not visit this page and comment thread will probably remain paralyzed, feel quite alone and violated, and will end up accepting the proposed refund rather than having nothing. I know I initially sure felt that way, and I’m one of 970 backers who gave £190 (close to 400$ in Canadian dollars, my currency, at the time).
    I think that there has been more than enough educated arguments and questions in here about the whole situation, and that it is rather obvious to everyone that the chance that this was bad management is more than slim (seriously? can you really manage that badly and not see something like that coming until five weeks after announcing the shipping of your product… After raising 580% of the start up funds you said was necessary for it???), and that we have all been victims of a rather well planned scam/fraud that was aimed at using backer’s money to R&D and develop a product, but not manufacture it at this point.
    I don’t think TT is hiding behind anything right now by leaving almost everything unanswered or answered only in an antagonizing way for thos backers who are clearly seeing through what is going on.
    I think that TT knows exactly what they are doing, and are quite content in keeping people busy here while they close as many refunds as possible. Once they’ve scammed 80% of the backers in accepting the 20% refund, they can the turn around back to those who were not fooled, looked compliant, and decide to give full refunds.
    Problem solved: backers have paid for the R&D, required travelling, networking and partnerships, etc., etc. TT runs their scam, ignore the outcry while fooling most backers into a fraudulent refund plan and in the end fully refund the small percentage of backers that remained vocal. They leave with all of the hardware, source codes, etc. etc. and get it manufactured under a different name to profit from it. Not a penny lost on their part. On the bright side, we’ll be able to buy it when it does come out ;-) How ignorant do they think backers are?
    I would in fact argue that their way of presently handling the outcry is just as brilliant as the way that they scammed all of the backers during fifteen months. A very well planned and orchestrated fraud from the very beginning. And we haven’t really exposed it… we’re still playing along.
    In light of all of this, I felt myself quite helpless. Being in Canada and having checked, there is nothing here that can help me acquire legal help in this matter. At least other than in the private sector, and we all know what this would mean cost wise for an individual in an international litigation. So I sent a very detailed report to Kickstarter, as well as a detailed reply to TT’s email with refund options. I did say in there that I was, as I believe most backers would be, open to a payment plan for TT to refund my pledge. As long as they take responsibility for what they have done, whether it was deliberate or not, and fix it. The company revenues are there to help them do that, and any other additional action required by them to generate cash flow, such as liquidating portions, is normal when taking responsibility for one’s actions.
    Maybe if 1900 backers write to TT along such lines, and write to Kickstarter along such lines as well, we can see something happening. Lets face it, they’ve had us otherwise, and there really isn’t much we can do.
    They probably really want us busy arguing in here… I would suggest that everyone writes to both TT and Kickstarter in an educated but firm manner…. And do it quick… TT is gaining ground and closing refunds.
    We did mutually enter an agreement bound by Terms of Service. We fulfilled our end and sent them our money. Now they have to fulfill their end.
    And TT, I sure hope you’re reading this. You would deserve jail for this. But just fix this and I’ll leave you alone.
    I think that there has been more than enough educated arguments and questions in here about the whole situation, and that it is rather obvious to everyone that the chance that this was bad management is more than slim (seriously? can you really manage that badly and not see something like that coming until five weeks after announcing the shipping of your product… After raising 580% of the start up funds you said was necessary for it???), and that we have all been victims of a rather well planned scam/fraud that aimed at using backer’s money to R&D and develop a product, but not manufacture it at this point.
    I don’t think TT is hiding behind anything right now by leaving most everything unanswered or answered in an antagonizing way for backers who are seeing through what is ongoing. I think that TT knows exactly what they are doing, and are quite content in keeping people busy here while the close as many refunds as possible. Once they’ve scammed 80% of the backers in accepting the 20% refund, they can the turn around back to those who were not fooled, looked compliant, and decide to give full refunds. Problem solved: backers paid for the R&D, required travelling, networking and partnerships, etc., etc

    Rob White on March 4
    @Gary Shuster That’s how I read their statement, they misrepresented the initial required funds to make themselves look better for the purpose of making a better “story”.
    They are/were all about the marketing!

    Rob White on March 4
    I see you have no intention of supplying the parts of the kits that you already produce as a company like the mobile unit or cables, just a chance to pay for them again.

    Craig Staples on March 4
    Why wasn’t the prototype put into production as is and called “ADA mark I” then make all your fancy upgrades in future versions?
    Like most / all companies do?

    François Labrecque on March 4
    Wonder how much money they can get selling all of our personnal informations?

    Gary Shuster on March 4
    If you take a look at https://triggertrap.reamaze.com/kb/triggertrap-redsnap/faq-how-is-it-possible-to-fail-when-you-asked-for-50k-in-your-kickstarter-goal-but-received-290k (which I captured to PDF, so no use trying to delete it), TT says:
    “Following our original budgets, we would be able to deliver the project if we had £100k or more, but we also felt that we would be able to generate more PR and excitement around the Kickstarter project if we hit our goal faster, and if we raised a higher multiplier of our goal (i.e. it’s a better story to say we were 580% funded, rather than 290% funded, in this case).”
    This is what we in the legal community call “Fraud”. Backers evaluate whether to back a project based various factors, but none is more important than the amount of money a project needs to succeed. If a project is on track to raise, say, 580% of the money they claim they need, they are as close to a sure thing as you can get. If a project is on track to raise half of that, they fall into a higher risk category. Part of the “PR and excitement” TT’s intentionally false statement generated was because they could build this thing for £50,000 and blew through that number as they were raising money so quickly. But for the false statement, I wouldn’t have backed the project — and I suspect that is true for many others.
    I suspect TT won’t take this piece seriously, because they are insisting on a clearly wrong reading of the contractual requirement that they make a full refund. Regardless, this is a case where there are claims — at minimum — for fraud, negligent misrepresentation, and breach of contract. There will be litigation over this. Please take this as your official notification that litigation will be filed, and you are therefore under an obligation to preserve all relevant evidence, including emails, electronic documents, physical documents, and physical evidence. Please take this seriously, as you wouldn’t want a spoliation of evidence claim to arise from a case you are going to lose anyhow.
    Of course, you can ask for a “do-over” and build the project like you promised. In fact, I know you can build it because you say that you couldn’t find financing at low enough rates, meaning that you were able to find financing, but opted not to take it because you didn’t like the rates. Well, when you raised 580% of what you asked for and still need more to complete the project, of course the bank is going to charge you a higher rate of interest — but that isn’t an excuse to refuse to fulfill your orders or refund the money obtain via, as you admit, a fraudulent representation as to how much money you needed.

    Craig Staples on March 4
    So if and when you develop ADA into a real not phantom product are you going to give every backer an 80% discount on it to make up the difference?

    Stephen Cottle on March 4
    I expect most email are asking the same sort of Questions as we are, so rather than writting it 100s of time you can do it here for everyone to read.
    You say you are dealing with refunds – basically dealing with the easy way out rather than what really should be dealt with.

    Duncan Moffat on March 4
    Haje, I don’t expect you to reply to each and every comment. What I do expect you to do is be prepared to open a dialogue with the people who you have taken money from.
    From what I can see, you have posted precisely 1 comment on your own forums since Sept 2014. Add that to the 4 comments that you have posted here today and it starts to look like you are deliberately avoiding a dialogue. If you can’t handle being a CEO, perhaps you should step down and find someone who can. Sticking your head in the sand won’t make this go away.
    There have been some very viable suggestions made here in the comments that you have not responded to;
    You could sell give the IP to MIOPS in return for a significant discount for existing backers, you could try to raise the money by asking the current backers for more funds, you could give everybody fewer sensors, you could invest some of your own money to see this fulfilled. Did you try to take out a loan against the other part of the company or just an unsecured loan? £140000 doesn’t appear to be a huge loan for a viable business.
    There are many ways that could have (and still can) potentially rescue this project. Replying to emails one-by-one is probably the worst way you could be dealing with this. It takes the most time and leaves the majority of people dissatisfied.
    I am not going to claim my refund until I know that all avenues have been exhausted.

    Gavin Hornak on March 4
    Why this is a scam:
    You are not willing to distribute your prototypes or tooling. In other words, Kickstarter payed for your R&D process, or in other words funded your development of the product, and and youre not willing to give what you used our money for.
    IN OTHER WORDS
    We funded your development. My guess is this was the plan all along. Now that you developed the product you will go sell it on another website.

    Gavin Hornak on March 4
    Two things.
    1. After a project is funded 290,000 euros when you originally asked for 50,000.. dont you think it would be appropriate to give us an update? I dont appreciate being left in the dark. I would have accepted the full refund you offered me a few months back instead of having faith in the project had I known those terms.
    2. Correct me if I am wrong, wouldn’t the proper thing to do be to liquidate your possessions? Typically when companies go so far under you close your doors and sell what you have to pay off your debt. I gave you $250, and youre only offering around $40 back… So send me $210 in office supplies, chairs, desks, product prototypes, cases, plastic molds, tooling of the product, I could go on.

    Robert on March 4
    Assumed this is no scam (just bad management), please start a new kickstarter campaign (or similar) for the missing money and see what happens. I pledged £190 and would rather give 50-100 more than get nothing/a voucher I don’t need. If it doesn’t succeed, go on with the currently plan and give out the remaining 20%.

    Rob White on March 4
    Really?
    What did you think the response was going to be?
    Completely over -fucking- whelmed, how do you think we feel.
    Get a grip man, you are supposed to be running a business not a paper round.

    Stephen Cottle on March 4
    *When we posted our update, there were fewer than 500 comments on this page, now there are 800+. We’ve been completely overwhelmed. ”
    Sorry but the first 500 were prior to this balls up, so again giving us facts that are basically un-true – you only have to deal with 300 comments not 800 as you are implying!!!!

    Marcus Gaines on March 4
    Instead of offering the 50% refund towards buying items from your website, that many of us have bought already. Have you thought about contacting the likes of the MIOPS team to see if they can help you out. Perhaps they could give you a discount that could in turn be used by us, your backers, to get money off a MIOPS system equivalent to the 50% you’re offering us towards your products. So instead of refunding us, or putting money back in you pockets it goes towards another company that did succeed.
    Kickstarter is after all a community and it wouldn’t hurt if you approached a successful group to see if they’d help you out in your hour of need. It would help improve your image, help another company and give us backers at least something to see for our money that is worth having.

    Creator Triggertrap on March 4
    “Haje! Reply to comments! Don’t you dare hide behind your FAQ and private emails. This is supposed to be a community site.”
    Everyone – I’m really sorry we haven’t been able to reply to all the comments.
    When we posted our update, there were fewer than 500 comments on this page, now there are 800+. We’ve been completely overwhelmed.
    Because we sent out an e-mail to our backers asking you for feedback and your refund preferences, we’ve been focusing on that. Over the past two days, we’ve replied to more than 850 e-mails, and dealt with more than 650 refund forms.
    As much as we’d love to respond to everything, we’ve received a tremendous amount of comms, and we’ve had to prioritise the channels in which we’re responding, and we’ve chosen to prioritise the e-mail channel. I know this upsets many of you, as you’d rather have replies on the comments, but given that we’re trying to process everybody’s refunds as quickly as possible, we’ve had to focus on the forms and the e-mails so far.
    I have been keeping an eye on the comments, and am trying to keep our FAQ section up to date to ensure that the vast majority of the questions that are being asked are being answered there.
    For context, we’re used to dealing with around 1,000 e-mails per month. We’ve had to process almost that many in the past two days. We’re going as fast as we can, but please be patient, we’ll try to get back as soon as possible.
    Thank you for your patience,
    Haje Jan Kamps
    CEO, Triggertrap

    Paul Brown on March 4
    @Stephen Cottle
    http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/shopping/unfair-treatment/unfair-commercial-practices/index_en.htm
    Bottom of page looks like it will link you to your local team

    Paul Brown on March 4
    I really did not want to go down the route of opening a case with the Euro Consumer Rights people. I was even prepared to pay more to have the product delivered. But after the appaling way in which TT have treated us. I see no option ( Still open to suggestions)

    Stephen Cottle on March 4
    havent worked out which link on that website to go to

    Paul Brown on March 4
    @Rob White – ‘Andreas’ posted a good link. Not sure if you are in UK but I will be trying this
    ‘consumer rights organizations (http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/index_en.htm) with locations in every (?) EU country.’

    Rob White on March 4
    @Paul Brown – That’s just it, it’s just US talking openly.
    After almost two days it’s become a one sided rant, with no obvious way forward ;o(

    Paul Brown on March 4
    @Rob White – What do you suggest Rob? We need to have a place where we can all talk openly.

    Rob White on March 4
    I can’t believe this is the only way we are able to communicate, through a forum where TT can hide behind it’s company logo and only choosing to comment sporadically, if at all.
    To be honest the FAQ is an insult as is the refund statement.

    Ed Catlett on March 4
    So when somebody robs a bank or a store or they are a crowned Prince in Nigeria who needs money to get to the millions they have offshore do they get to just repay the portion that they stole or are they liable for 100% of what they stole? Funny that Haje thinks it is OK just to return what he hasn’t spent. Then tries to pepper the media with the idea of how he is being “honest.”

    Duncan Moffat on March 4
    Haje! Reply to comments! Don’t you dare hide behind your FAQ and private emails. This is supposed to be a community site. You have had enough time to go around the press outlets with puppy dog eyes and try to convince them that 80% of backers are happy with you loosing their money – you have enough time to reply here.
    You owe it to us to respond here. 4 comments per day is pathetic.

    Shreds on March 4
    Each and every member of the TT team should be he;ld personally liable and have their assets seized to refund the backers. This would happen in other businesses and just because it is KS should be no different. They have lived the high life on our money for many months knowing full well they didn’t have a viable product.
    Their mobile product should not be immune from being drawn into thous to provide refunds. I don’t care whether that goes under, in fact why should it survive given what has happened to Ada. I would actively like to see it go down in order to provide funds to the out of pocket backers.
    Just saying ‘sorry we give up, we have failed’ is completely unacceptable. Accept responsibility for your failure and refund all the backers out of your own pockets and assets.
    Then go and get a proper job (if you don’t get sent to jail for fraud).
    Also KS is dead, as this is not the first scam that has emerged in recent years. Why would anyone want to pour hard and legitimately earned money into this organisation and its projects.

    steve wood on March 4
    I have to add, I feel sorry for the poor developers in the backer community that helped out when they were on the ropes a few months ago. All their effort has now gone to waste.

    Andreas on March 4
    to all EU backers: there is a network of consumer rights organizations (http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/index_en.htm) with locations in every (?) EU country. you can inform you local representative and they will help you out for free. this is a first, free and very easy step to seek legal advice. They’ll also handle the communication with the UK authority.
    So everybody thinking about taking legal actions and lives in the EU should take this route first. Like I said: free, not a lot of work and they did a very good job at a previous problem I had. Cases like this are exactly what they are here for.

    Bret Dangelmaier on March 4
    Well… As one of the 970 unfortunate top-level backers — yeah, I’m a little pissed AND disappointed. If I were running the show there, and this is assuming that all involved at TT are honest folks, the first thing I would do would be to STOP antagonizing the backers (though this clearly is not their intent to antagonize) with some of the responses.
    Then I would take a short break from the communications and seek out some advice from some clever people out there and see if there is a way to salvage this situation. The longer this goes on festering, the less likely there can ever be a solution that doesn’t BOTH make it worse for the backers AND take down the company too.
    There must still be some options surrounding bringing this to market, based on the fact that the remaining costs are known, as are the refund costs (20% and 100%), as are the potential legal costs too — even though it is a UK organization and not a US one where a lawsuit would be a certainty.
    I suggest you solicit advice / counsel one more time, as the current storm of a situation TT is in also wasn’t probably anticipated.

    Jears on March 4
    Now now, let’s all take a step back and appreciate a really great photo featured on the today BBC: WEASEL RIDING ON A WOODPECKER’S BACK
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31711446
    Isn’t that a great photo!? Yeah? It’s very timely. Do you feel like the bird or the weasel?
    Reading the responses from the TT team, I don’t think I’m the only one feeling increasingly like I’m that woodpecker.
    Kickstarters fail. It happens. Risk is a thing. Reward-based crowdfunding will not be covered by the FCA’s unhappiness with Equity-based crowdfunding.
    What I am specifically most annoyed with is the disingenuous way the team has communicated and behaved since 1) Yesterday and 2) it became patently obvious this campaign was headed into the financial ground. The lack of communication. The upbeat updates. The articles on Medium.
    All these things leading up to the moment when you could stand up and announce “Oops” with the internet equivalent of sad puppy dog eyes. Disappointment. So sad. But it was a great ride, wasn’t it!
    How much of the funds was spread over the entire business, towards TT Mobile, not just on Ada? I wasn’t happy yesterday to hear the news, but the response of TT to the really pretty understandable reaction makes thing so much worse.
    Going back to that woodpecker, I suppose we can argue it shouldn’t complain. It could have been worse. The Weasel got a ride and the bird lives to bang its head into trees, just like always.

    Rahim Ikram on March 4
    @sharrythomas maybe laughable to you, but many people had invested a lot of money and money doesn’t grow on tree’s.
    So its ok to raise nearly £300,000 and then start saying were ready for shipment and all of a sudden the project fails, sounds dodgy to me.

    Stephen Cottle on March 4
    Keep reading some of these articles, about this lawsuit with the name thing – sounds like you used our money to bail yourself out due to not researching it to what companies use similaer names.
    Considering he is the CEO then he will get the flack for this balls up and the dishonestly.

    Rahim Ikram on March 4
    You fucking antagonising us with bullshit links, bunch of fucking thieving bastards, hope Haje Jan Kamps rots in hell, not sorry for my harsh words at all, this is no difference to any other low life thief stealing from others
    Fraud is a type of criminal activity, defined as: ‘abuse of position, or false representation, or prejudicing someone’s rights for personal gain’. Put simply, fraud is an act of deception intended for personal gain or to cause a loss to another party

    Sharry Thomas on March 4
    Man some of these comments are laughable. People personally attacking Haje and the team must have some pretty boring lives to create that much conflict out of something that was never guaranteed.

    Dave Lyon on March 4
    Article from Amateur Photographer
    http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/latest/photo-news/triggertrap-admits-failure-of-its-290000-kickstarter-project-45210…

    Paul Brown on March 4
    @Triggertrap – The more you antagonize your backers the more likely you will end up with a law suit. As you state in the FAQ on the ToS, That is your ‘opinion’
    So far you have done nothing constructive to help us. You have made offers that ‘You’ feel are of value but clearly we do not.
    If you have any respect for your workers, whose jobs might be at risk if a law suit was pursued, please listen to the backers and come back with something more than you simple apologies

    Creator Triggertrap on March 4
    Hi everyone,
    We note that quite a few of you have questions about the Kickstarter terms of service, so we’ve created a FAQ reply specifically addressing that – https://triggertrap.reamaze.com/kb/triggertrap-redsnap/faq-doesn-t-the-kickstarter-terms-of-service-say-you-have-to-give-a-full-refund
    Thank you,
    Team Triggertrap

    Jean MARTIN on March 4
    You still have £ 58,000. You can at least produce 500 kits?

    Richard J R Fletcher on March 4
    I would be loathed to put any more money into the Ada. Yes the idea that a little more would ensure delivery is tempting but unfortunately TT have had enough already amd plenty from the start, had the Ada been at the stage of development indicated on KS. In reality TT might have made a tidy profit. However, the overspend completing development ensured this outcome was inevitable and the plug pulled earlier.
    As I re-read the KS pitch nothing indicates that the further development costs would exceed 3 times the original target of £50k ! And with it the money to pay for manufacturing (res ipsa loquitur).

    Ed Catlett on March 4
    As expected he is now also deleting comments on Facebook as well. Sorry Haje. Your only out on this is to follow your obligation to refund the money you basically stole. Your campaign and the communications around it were quite obviously fraudulent. You gave every indication all the way into January that you were going to deliver, meanwhile funding your staff with the idea that you and your company aren’t liable. We’ll see about that. I am normally not a law suit kind of person but when somebody OBVIOUSLY has cheated me I don’t let go easily.

    Stephen Cottle on March 4
    is that 180k on top of the 58k you still have available (ie it actually 122K needed)? or are you talking 180 + the 58k left over?
    I would think about putting a bit more in however i would expect a good store discount (15-20%) as well

    TimvdO on March 4
    After a little calculation with the £180k, the price for a top level unit (£190, 64% of funds, 970 backers) comes down to about £119/unit, leaving a gap of £81/unit with the £38 we’d be getting back.
    How can a 300% discrepancy (so a top level unit cost of just £40 in the first quote?) be explained? Why was this not followed up with suppliers much earlier on in the process?

    Arne Borgan on March 4
    no good… they removed this link instantly on FB!! http://forum.triggertrap.com/discussion/818/shame-on-triggertrap-triggertrap-is-a-scam-lawsuits-in-the-works-boycott-this-company…

    noktec on March 4
    Interestingly enough, throughout all the eventual idea proposed, TT are actually not addressing the possible solutions proposed.
    – When will the code, and other material be available on github ?
    – What about printing PCBs to reduce the costs
    – What about giving DIY kits
    – What about … all the other options given by the community ?

    Thomas Greve on March 4
    @those backer willing to increase the funds: are you really sure you want to do that? HJK never seems to be, er, exactly transparent with his communication.
    – how can we be sure, there is a working prototype, which is ready for mass production?
    – how can we be sure, the additional funds are really used for production?
    – how can we be sure we will end up with a useable product?
    – in short: how can we be sure that this blatant mismanagement (to say the least) does not simply continue?

    Minning Xiang on March 4
    Yes. I think @Creator should set up a survey to ask how many people would like to pay more for the project. If there are enough backers, collect money and finish the project.

    Matthew Humphreys on March 4
    Q: “How much will it cost to manufacture Ada”
    In our most recent cost calculation spreadsheet, it will cost ~$275k (~£179k) to fulfil our order from our factory, including the tooling, cables, packaging, shipping to Kickstarter backers, import taxes, VAT, etc etc etc.
    So now we know that tooling hadn’t even been sorted yet?
    Again, no-one has explained how TT managed to confirm delivery for May when tooling hasn’t been sorted.
    How can the update about delivery in May have been made without this vital piece of manufacturing equipment?
    More questions to be answered.

    Duncan Moffat on March 4
    This is a joke. £179k to fulfill the orders. That is 62% of all the money you raised! After staff costs and kickstarter fees there would have been none left. How did this only come to light in December 2014?! How didn’t you know about this before you launched the project?
    This absolutely boggles the mind. How does that £179k cost break down? Are there new boards 6x more expensive than the old boards or something? Presumably the cost for the cables and housings are lower than you estimated for the original project because you had a lot more orders so the increase must have been a new component. Who is your CFO? Are they still with the company? Did they pass GCSE maths?
    Anyway, this doesn’t have to be the end of the road. Please contact your manufacturer and ask them to price out a few different sizes of orders for the individual components. Put a poll on your site asking people if they would be willing to pay a little extra to complete their kit and then tally up the numbers to see if it is feasible. If it would only cost me £60-£100 to get my platinum kit I would probably be willing to do it. I’m sure a lot of others would do the same. It would probably be a nice gesture if you absorbed a little bit of the cost yourselves as shareholders of the company, as you seem to be the only people who haven’t paid the price for your mistakes.

    Ed Catlett on March 4
    Here is their Facebook page where there is no mention of their Kickstarter scam. https://www.facebook.com/triggertrap

    Minning Xiang on March 4
    If each of the backers pay extra ~40% of their pledged amount, the project will go on… Don’t know how many people agree with that.

    Creator Triggertrap on March 4
    @Stephen Cottle,
    Completing the project as it stands would be cheaper than giving full refunds, yes – but the simple truth is that we don’t have the £180k to place that order with the factory, and without additional support from a bank or investor, we wouldn’t be able to raise enough money to get there.
    As discussed in our FAQ: https://triggertrap.reamaze.com/kb/triggertrap-redsnap/faq-how-come-i-can-t-have-a-full-refund we are unable to offer a full refund, but are instead offering to refund the remaining funds to our backers.
    To claim your refund, please follow the instructions in the e-mail we sent to you. If you haven’t received the e-mail, please contact us on hello@triggertrap.com and we can help further.
    Thank you,
    Haje Jan Kamps
    CEO, Triggertrap

    Stephen Cottle on March 4
    So it going to cost you a lot less that giving full refunds

    Creator Triggertrap on March 4
    Q: “How much will it cost to manufacture Ada”
    In our most recent cost calculation spreadsheet, it will cost ~$275k (~£179k) to fulfil our order from our factory, including the tooling, cables, packaging, shipping to Kickstarter backers, import taxes, VAT, etc etc etc.
    We’ve also addressed several of the new frequently asked questions from our backers in the FAQ: https://triggertrap.reamaze.com/kb/triggertrap-redsnap, including the question about Kickstarter’s Terms of Service.
    Team Triggertrap

    Duncan Moffat on March 4
    This is what is bugging me; “(it) will cost three times more to manufacture per unit than we had hoped”.
    How do you get an estimate 3x wrong? 10% or even 50% is feasible. 300% is just beyond belief.
    Please tell us the COST PRICE to manufacture the platinum kit here, in the kickstarter comments. I’m sure that your supplier will be able to give you a quote for 100, 500 and 1000 units. I imagine that it will be a lot less than the $230 the miops will cost. Give people the option to put in a little more money to make sure that they receive their Ada’s.
    As it stands, your company is toast. There is no PR team that can fix Haje’s image now. No more investments or loans for a company that has spent £300,000 and has nothing to show for it. A lot of the people who backed this project are your core customers and have been treated extremely badly. In my opinion, seeing this project through is the only way to salvage your company.

    Stephen Cottle on March 4
    Trigger trap at least answer this question exactly how much will it cost to get it through manufacturing?

    Ed Catlett on March 4
    http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2012/01/triggertrap-the-story well congratulations Haje. You screwed everybody again. January update #25 must have been especially gratifying knowing that you got all of the innocent backers ready for the big punchline.
    You managed to get over 4 times what you “needed” to do the project and managed to offer back about 20% of the original ask. I am guessing your days of scamming people on Kickstarter are over but I’ll be keeping an eye out for your next scam.

    Rob White on March 3
    Quote;
    There’s currently 4 of us trying to respond to e-mails, but we’re completely swamped. I’m sorry we’re falling behind on all the other communication channels.
    I completely understand that you’re frustrated and unhappy with the choices we’ve given people, but ultimately, we had to come up with a few different ways of dealing with this – and offering people the option to get shop credit or to donate their share to charity seemed like good ideas. As it turns out, about 4% did want to donate their share of the refund to charity.
    I don’t really know what to say other than that I”m incredibly disappointed we failed to deliver, and that we’ve let you down.
    ~ Haje
    Haje Jan Kamps
    CEO, Triggertrap
    Get social with us! You can find us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and Flickr! Be sure to tag @triggertrap and #triggertrap on any awesome shots you post online!
    Haje,
    Stop apologising, I now expect you to “fall behind” with your commitments.
    Just man up and take responsibility for you actions.
    Please think about what you are email and who you’re emailing;
    “Get social with us! You can find us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and Flickr! Be sure to tag @triggertrap and #triggertrap on any awesome shots you post online!”
    Can you please stop inviting me to slate you and your company via

    TimvdO on March 3
    The FAQ has been updated with a response to the correct T&C:
    “A few of our backers were reading the above mentioned clause as the campaign having to offer a full refund. We admit that the clause could be read either way: the terms of service don’t mention a ‘partial’ refund or a refund of ‘remaining funds’.
    However, the ToS also doesn’t specify that a failed project must offer a full refund.”
    They go on to refer to the current T&C, which is irrelevant to this project.
    Hiding behind semantics. Legally, I doubt their argument will hold up (if no refund amount is specified, the full amount is always intended).
    I started yesterday with *some* understanding for their woes. It soon went away with TT’s horrible communication afterwards (and throughout this project, really), which proved themselves to have intentionally lied to us, about confirmed shipping dates, R&D development, etc.
    Answer the questions on the financial specifics, audited or not.

    David GN Chamberlain on March 3
    Craftypics. In all probability they are up to date with the other creditors but once they go under more creditor will crawl out of the woodwork. The taxman and vat are always greedy as is the local authority. If they are leasing any buildings the outstanding amount expected on the leasing contracts will be added then there is business rates and then there is the big sums for administration. This is very expensive and with 2000 or so creditors expensive. One company I worked with had some 400 creditors and they administrators charged £25+vat or sending out a letter to each one. Us 2000 or so creditors at £25+ vat each and there goes your £58000. They will put at least 28 days for us to reply to that so that is probably two administrators @ £1000 each waiting for replies. Bang goes another £56,000 + vat minimum. Why are the fees so high..because they don’t often recover them in full so keep them high in for when they can. Also this is London so everything is more expensive. Hiring a less expensive person from north of Watford won’t help as accommodation, travel and feeding expensive swallows up the difference. Bankruptcy will almost certainly mean no money left.
    Good luck with anyone looking to get a chargeback on their credit card. The banks could well regard it as a gamble or you have already got what you paid for – the chance to invest in a start-up project.

    Matthew Humphreys on March 3
    Noktec makes some good points about releasing what is complete. They claimed to be ready for production, so a lot must be available for use.
    The big problem seems to be that TT have decided what they are going to do and are not going to be persuaded to do anything else.
    As long as their core business survives they just seem to want to put their head in the sand and take the flack.
    If they were to be a bit inventive and creative I’m sure there are avenues that could be followed for a better outcome.
    It takes some imagination, flair and engaging with the backers to find a way out of this.
    “Out of every disaster comes opportunity” – but TT need to want to take these seriously and prove that they are committed to sorting this out.
    We have not seen any evidence of this yet.

    Troy Jones on March 3
    @triggertrap complete what you started or full refund

    Troy Jones on March 3
    We have a case if we stick together and dont back done we where led to believe they had a working prototype right from the start that is what we backed. This is so wrong and criminal if Haje things he can pull the wool over our eyes

    Dan McColl on March 3
    It’s disappointing that it has come to this, especially after the continuous upbeat progress reports.
    Personally I’d rather throw in a little more money and see the project through to fruition than for it to end this way.
    I feel this would also go a long way to helping you retain some credibility and reputation.

    Troy Jones on March 3
    This is totally not acceptable CEO Haje Jan Kamps said he had to choose between the backers or the triggertrap customers well guess what Haje lots we where customers of yours.. His next best selling book mark these words will be How our $500k Kickstarter campaign crashed and burned.. By Haje Jan Kamps, he saw a way to make even more money once he realised the ada was not going to make him rich.. Triggertrap ltd have committed wilful misconduct Haje Jan Kamps has personally reasonable gross negligence. Guess who brought a house in 2014…

    Matthew Humphreys on March 3
    Having just re-read the FAQ’s, there are several places where triggertrap admit that they made errors and didn’t keep an eye on costs.
    They also wish to keep the prototypes in case they are of use in the future……
    So we are funding their mistakes and future development.
    I have lodged a complaint with Kickstarter and requested the paperwork from my credit card company to commence a chargeback (I am UK based), as TT are not (as far as we can see) complying with the terms in place when I made my pledge. Thus they do not appear to have fulfilled their part of the contract.
    I would be happy to be corrected on this issue, but TT have yet to confirm how their interpretation of the terms is valid.

    Craftypics on March 3
    David GN , from what has been posted they have paid the outstanding amounts owing to Creditors already ?? or at least I hope that is the case or even the 20% left is screwed

    noktec on March 3
    I agree myself with David GN Chamberlain’s view, however, I believe there are potential solutions that might not have been investigated yet.
    @trigertrap :
    – Could you provide some PCBs ? instead of the whole triggertrap ada ? let’s say you do not provide the plastic around the PCBs ? would that reduce the costs enough ?
    – When will the code, the 3d printing files be online ?
    – Is there anything else you could provide the backer with ?
    etc.

    John Rees on March 3
    I fully agree with David GN Chamberlain’s view of the situation. I spent a few years of my life winding up companies that couldn’t or wouldn’t meet their debts. Both company law and consumer law has changed since then but I still see no grounds for pursuing Triggertap or its director, any such action would be just vengeance.
    I took a gamble and lost, I’m just hoping that the firm will come up with something in the future that I want to spend my credit on.

    Dave Lyon on March 3
    I know it may be of no use to many and doesn’t get over the fact that Triggertrap are not fulfilling their obligations, but if you paid by credit card in the UK, there may be a case for a refund from the credit card company.

    Creator Triggertrap on March 3
    Good morning everyone,
    Just a quick note: Rest assured that we are reading all the comments, and we’re trying to reply as efficiently as possibly by keeping our FAQ as complete as possible: https://triggertrap.reamaze.com/kb/triggertrap-redsnap
    We will also try to respond to your individual concerns here, but we currently have 270 backer reply forms and 140 e-mails outstanding, and we’re working our way through them as quickly as we can first.
    Stay tuned, and sorry for the delay in getting back to you.
    Haje Jan Kamps
    CEO, Triggertrap

    Silverback on March 3
    I agree with the comment of the gentlemen who wrote this :
    I must say that I’m very disappointed. I backed this project after supporting the original triggertrap and assumed that the management had learned from their previous mistakes and experience. Apparently that is not the case. My read of the terms of service does suggest that a full refund is indeed due and I will be asking Kickstarter to make a formal decision on what type of refund is appropriate in this circumstance. It does appear that management was not watching the finances of the company and must share in some of the loss as they definitely led the backers to believe that the project was on track albeit late. Perhaps new management with strong manufacturing expertise should take over the company.
    At a minimum:
    -The full finances for the project (even though they are not audited) should be posted publicly
    -The current backer debts could be converted to shares in the current company (current management should give up about 80% of the company to the backers) and backers could choose to invest further in a real management team
    -There should be some options to build a scaled down version of the triggers (maybe just the base unit and one or two sensors) as a show of good faith.
    -the source code and any IP should be protected until this issue is settled.

    David GN Chamberlain on March 3
    Having had a sleep and time to mull over the situation more and trying to separate my disappointment away from judgement my basic conclusions haven’t changed.
    I took a risk, it did not pay-off, I lost.
    As a former project manager who has been there, done that, got the scars. I had a fair idea of the risks and how much I was willing to gamble. The outcome I wanted was trigger-trap ADA. Down the line that is still the outcome I want however unlikely that may seem at the moment. But what will kill that aspiration and any other favourable outcomes stone dead.
    The first is ‘punishing the company’ by pushing it into bankruptcy. We will get nothing after everyone in the creditors list before us has had their slice. The £58,000 will disappear in Administrator and Receiver fees (typically £1000+ per person per day in London) and that is before the VAT (purchase tax). They will have over 2000 creditors to deal with and that will not be cheap. The Receiver/Administrator will want to maximise the return to the creditors (of which they high on that list). They will sell any IPR. They will attempt to recover any assets deemed to be improperly disposed of and that will probably include any pay out to us given before the bankruptcy. Those high on the list will get their money in full whilst there is some still available. What is left at the end will be distributed amongst the unsecured creditors i.e. us. At the moment we are ‘promised’ 20p in the £, post-bankruptcy we would be lucky to receive 0.1p in the £
    Unless you want revenge bankruptcy is not a good option. There is also the problem of how to force a bankruptcy as I doubt any of the Kickstarter backers exceeds the threshold required to force bankruptcy. There are ways to do it but it would be a hollow and potentially expensive victory.
    Some commentators here should well take into account the libel laws in the UK. In the developed world they are regarded as the most biased in favour of the plaintiff. Phrases such as con-men would need a high burden of proof to defend against the company suing for libel.
    Triggertrap have said why the project failed and in the absence of any tangible evidence I have no reason to doubt them. They turned a “to manufacture and production” project (effectively what we bought in to) to become a research project followed by a manufacturing/production project. They failed to have appropriate project management and governance that would have shouted stop much sooner. They did not have the funding for a research project even after exceeding the target amount by so much. They did not have access to unlimited capital.
    Putting in place more appropriate project management and governance is not cheap. It would have made the Kickstarter levels of reward a lot more expensive, but avoiding that is one reason you go to Kickstarter, the investors there do not demand the same level of governance and accountability as other more formal routes to investment. This is the risk you take with Kickstarter and it is a significant risk.
    Triggertrap are not alone in failing this way. For those in the UK the Universal Credit project is even more woefully inept, the care.data project especially so as well not to mention HMRC, MOD, MoJ. These projects only sometimes deliver because the taxpayer chucks in huge sums of money to bring them to fruition. The amount of tax you pay to support this is way greater than what you have lost with triggertrap.
    The UK is not alone in this just think about the Joint Strike Fighter (how many times over original budget and timescales is it now) or any of the stealth projects (or any defence project). Most Olympic projects (including London’s) greatly exceed the budgets laid out in their bid documents. I for example am paying £20 a year levy as part of the GLA precept for another 15 or so years.
    The difference between these and Triggertrap is of scale and because what you spent is closer to where it is spent. It is more personal and your emotional as well as monetary investment is more acutely felt.
    My experience of UK company and consumer law would suggest that in absence of precedent and legislation the money we have invested would be considered like a deposit on a car or washing machine when the supplier goes bust. The title to the deposit rests with the supplier once the deposit is received. The consumer loses out.
    So what to do.
    I still want a product like Triggertrap ADA and at a reasonable price. Currently I am not hopeful.
    Kickstarter and its like are starting to be dealt potentially fatal blows because of shortcuts taken in the business model. There needs to be a better governance model which includes the investors for organisations seeking funding. However this has to be done at a reasonable cost to avoid losing the advantages gained by the Kickstarter model.
    There must be a way for investors to shout Stop and regular and meaningful reports on progress need to be made to investors to enable them to do so. The decision to stop should be collective rather than individual.
    Let’s have a couple more days to vent anger and indulge in name-calling. But then let us look at ways to make the best of this situation.

    Martin Norton on March 3
    I’m just as aggrieved as any of the backers here. TriggerTrap have run a project with zero oversight on the finances. The CEO is being quoted as “taking responsibility” by various outlets on the net, but the resposibility is only in the form of words. It seems to me that trigger trap falsely made claims in their original pitch as to where they were in the development process. If they’d actually been honest I think they may have only reached their original target goal of 50k. However we as backers would have been able to make the choice on whether the risk was high or not. I’ve backed KS projects before and when they’ve failed they’ve pulled the plug early and been honest about issues around why. What we have had are 25 updates with lots of images claiming to show them using working versions of the product, and a final one saying sorry but we failed. Trigger trap will have failed to secure further external funding because the potential investors would want to see the accounts and the business plan. If they’ve said no it’ll be due to the finances, business plan and project management being a shambles. The fact none of the money raised was held back for contingencies such as this would suggest they have poor core business skills. Bottom line is the brand TriggerTrap is going to be beyond salvaging. Whilst I hate to see a company cease trading and people lose jobs, triggertrap have effectively killed their own brand. I want my full refund, I want to see a full breakdown of how the money was used, and whilst there is no “legal” obligation to do so, if they wish to rescue some of their reputation, it would be the honest thing to do. Do I think I’ll see a refund or the accounts….no I dont….can I see the bad PR damaging other KS projects. Yes

    Philip Grainger on March 3
    Can you please explain that in your FAQ https://triggertrap.reamaze.com/kb/triggertrap-redsnap/faq-how-come-i-can-t-have-a-full-refund you state that ‘in line with their terms of use.’ that you cannot offer a full refund. The link you have provided is the WRONG terms of use as your project was succesfully funded before October 18th, 2014. Under the ‘old’ terms of use that apply to ths project, your obligation is ‘Project Creators are required to fulfill all rewards of their successful fundraising campaigns or refund any Backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill.’

    Paul Brown on March 3
    @Triggertrap – I do not want you to release my code to open source.
    @Triggertrap – I am still willing to pay a bit more for a delivered product (Albeit you make no profit)

    Alexander Brandt on March 3
    I reported the project to Kickstarter and requested a full refund. For me it is clearly a scam, when the original description stated “Ada is already at late stage in the development process…” and all other updates were all nice and shiny (no money problems, only delays) and then “suddenly” they are out of money! Why should we take all the risks, when they were lying to us from the beginning and in every single update? There was no mention of any financial problems, only in the very last update when it was announced that they cannot deliver. I want my money back!

    Troy Jones on March 3
    Reported!

    Christopher Seaton on March 3
    Have to say I agree with much of what has been said. Obviously I would prefer a higher refund, however that’s unlikely to appear. More importantly though, I’d want to see the company go bankrupt so at least the company directors have a tarnish on their record to show for all this. Pernickety I know, but why should they continue? I’m sure Kickstarter isn’t meant to be a ‘fund your life’, yet that’s where the money went. Fair play to Haje for managing to spend it so quickly…

    Paul Brown on March 3
    @VHF – Thanks I just followed through on that link at bottom of story page, I suggest everyone else do it and we repost the message every couple of hours

    Stewart Baird on March 3
    So we, the backers, were the ones carrying all of the risk. It is a little hard to reconcile the steady stream of “we are getting closer” reports with this update. Ditto to most of the comments below.

    VHF on March 3
    You can still report this project to Kickstarter using the link at the bottom of the ‘Story’ page.

    steve wood on March 3
    OK folks, the bottom line is, the smooth talking Haje has had access to his little spreadsheet for a lot longer than us. Whilst we’re all chasing our tails in disarray trying to make sense of it all , in the next few weeks, expect him to sell the rights to the product to an “Interested party” (a friend down the pub) for a nominal fee, then triggertrap will licence it back into production at a nominal fee. Haje and triggertrap walk away,shrugging their shoulders “Sorry guys, we’d love to help, but it’s not our product any more. But we sold it for £2000,here’s an extra penny each”
    They must think we’re stupid.

    Rahim Ikram on March 3
    Triggertrap team you are all a bunch of fucking dishonest scumbags,

    Kenneth D on March 3
    I’m done with Kickstarter, they don’t seem to do anything about these kind of projects were thing go really wrong

    Robert Hornschu on March 3
    This seems like pouring salt in the wound of the backers, but how about starting a Kickstarter campaign to fund a lawsuit against TT. Hound the “officers” of the company until they have nothing left. Even if the lawsuits are frivolous, pour so much legal paper on these people that they virtually drown in it. Get the local authorities to investigate this as a criminal enterprise. I’m beginning to think it was a scam all along.

    Roland Ng on March 3
    I am requesting a full refund of my pledge.
    None of your previous updates even remotely hints that this project is in the reds. You were not upfront in your updates at all. This project is more than 5 times pledged over your 50K pledge goal.
    I am not going to accept a pie chart that states your expenditure of this project.
    Is there even proper auditing done. Show us the itemized breakdown of your statement of accounts, expenditures (including Purchase Orders / Delivery Orders), staff salaries and bonus.
    For now until more documents and proofs are presented: – I am regarding this project as a scam.

    Craftypics on March 3
    Looking back and reading the original Kickstarter launch spiel I still shake my head in disbelief at the information given to potential backers before any money changed hands
    1) “But you’ve caught us in the tail-end of the prototyping process, which is where the engineers are going to squirrel themselves away to do all their optimisations.”
    2) “We’ve been working on Triggertrap Ada on the sly for a long time now, and we’ve invested a lot of money into it. We’ve gotten it to a point that we’re ready to take it to production.”
    3) “We are still making revisions and improvements to the electronics and enclosures, with a design freeze planned for the end of the Kickstarter campaign”
    Obvious now that we were misled. Looking forward to see Kickstarters response to this

    Manfred Winter on March 3
    I want a full refund, based on the Kickstarter TOS as per the date I backed.
    If this brings Triggertrap to an end, so be it. The combination of hyperbole and poor planning and execution they have shown so far ain’t worth being kept alive.
    Look at this personal bragging page by the “CEO”:http://kamps.org/it-is-getting-him-to-shut-up-thats-the-problem/
    If only they would have listened to the speech topic marked at 4th on the list of past topics, the whole fiasco would not have happened!

    Eric Kaufman on March 3
    I wish that all of these comments were recognized by google so that when one looks up “triggertrap” in the future, all that they see is the negative reviews of their customers / backers. I guess I will have to find other ways to post my displeasure where more can see.
    Let’s see, returning 20% return on investment — you probably get to write that off as a loss. Or donating the money to charity (an declaring that you donated YOUR money) so that you get a tax write off. Or giving people a credit in your store and probably writing that off as well. How does Triggertrap bear any of the failure?
    While the store credit sounds like a good way to get more on one’s money back, don’t you think that most of the backers have already purchased your current mobile solution as they waited for the ADA? How many triggertraps do I need?
    I need to research kicjstarter’s policy, but for now, I;d like to go on the record as requesting a full refund.
    Triggertrap was my first and most expensive Kickstarter investment. I guess I have been lucky that all of the other ones came through. Seeing this coming, I had not made another Kickstarter investment in about a year. Both Kickstarter and Triggertrap have lost me as a customer.
    You took some great pictures as you pissed away my money. Hope you had fun.

    Tan Meng Keat on March 3
    A screw-up by yourself on planning and execution does not justify on partial refunds. Under the kickstarter program a fail project should be refunded in full as stated in TOS.
    Imagine I which funded the project in GBP which is five times my exchange rate in my own currency. The money loss in this funding is 5 times more. How can a project which has all the planning done become so wrong in the run and keep on going on the delay.
    If this partial refund would to go through what is the integrity of Kickstarter and what future of Kickstarter for others. This cannot let happen.

    David Lewinsohn on March 3
    Before I make a decision one way or another I would like to hear from Triggertrap about what options there are in delivering the goods as originally pledged by the company.
    How much extra money would be required?
    What quality of product would we receive?
    Is the project so close that it would only take a “small” amount of additional funding?
    What is the drop dead delivery date?
    If Triggertrap was looking to trade its way out of this difficulty, they should be able to answer these simple questions.
    Triggertrap, we await your reply.

    ndnihil on March 3
    I’d also be very curious to know how much they took in from pre-orders on their website:
    http://shop.triggertrap.com/products/triggertrap-ada

    MDDCFlyer on March 3
    The terms requires you to provide FULL refund if you fail to deliver a reward. If this was money obtained from a Bank or a Venture Capital you could not unilaterally just write it off.
    Let me me be generous – I am ready to hear about your re-payment plan. You say you want to keep the company running – great. Pay us back over a year, over two years. Show some backbone and show us how you are reducing your costs. Tell us how you cut your own salaries to provide money back to the backers. Commit every bit of profit to repay your backers back – as long as it take to pay everyone what they deserve.
    I am probably dreaming.

    Allan Aylard on March 3
    It’s bad enough that this Kickstarter project has failed. It even worse that it failed so badly. Even worse than that is that Triggertrap was not upfront with the backers about the amount of development still left to be done prior to the start of the campaign. To add to the misery Triggertrap hid the real status from us as the project progressed.
    Then to top off the misery to the backers, two of the refund options allow them to keep the money in their own coffers (store credit and Invest in R&D). It’s interesting that they chose the store credit as the default in the refund application.
    Sleezy!

    ndnihil on March 3
    Suing them into oblivion may result in us as backers being less likely to recoup our stolen funds, but it will go a long way to helping prevent them ever being in a position to scam people in the future. The 30% they pocketed is roughly 87,000GBP which should be enough to finish the production run. I’m no authority on UK law, but section 75 of the consumer credit act might be applicable in this situation.
    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1974/39/section/75

    Gerry on March 3
    That’s a very good point David. You have me convinced.

    Ben Appleton on March 3
    lay the figures on the table. with you making $0 profit, what would it cost per unit for completion? I have paid £190. if a further £30-£50 would get the product in my hands, ill pay it. this is a beyond a joke, after delivering this product, you should close your company out of embarrassment.

    David GN Chamberlain on March 3
    I am livid that this has gone tits-up but anger, desire for revenge etc. is going to get usu nowhere.
    Triggertrap is a UK company with no offices in the USA. Suing it in the USA would be meaningless. UK company law is applicable and that is heavily weighted against the consumer in this type of situation. There is no (easy) equivalent of a class action.
    At best we are unsecured creditors which means in terms of bankruptcy we will get in all probability 0% of nothing. We come last in the list of creditors. The taxman, the vat man, the council tax, the pension fund, the staff outstanding wages, the DWP, the Official Receiver, the Courts, the lawyers, the banks, the local authority all come before us and there are probably more than that.
    My guess is the company will go bankrupt without our needing to push it. I believe it is technically trading illegally as its liabilities exceed its assets with no reasonable prospects of meeting those liabilities. The Office for Fair Trading and Companies House are likely to sniff around as well. In addition Triggertraps reputation is irreparably damaged. The banks and private investors have shunned them. It looks bleak.
    If it was me I would be considering winding up the company voluntarily and getting some value out of it before I was made to do it and lose all value.
    If the company is deemed to have been trading illegally then any transfer of IPL to open source may well be considered an improper transfer of assets and the Receiver recover them in order to sell them to pay off creditors. It may also be the case that paying us back 20% would also be considered as such and the receiver would come after those who had taken this route.
    Triggertrap see the need to support its current customers but likely if it goes under peer-group support will fill a large part of the gap.
    I will out in for the 20% but I think I will be lucky to collect it and even if I do it will probably be clawed back.
    If we prosecuted every company that told a few lies then there would be a lot less companies and hardship for all. That is not to condone it but to face the reality of laissez-fare capitalism.
    I have no stomach for revenge as it will achieve nothing of value.
    The reason for this going tits-up is clearly Triggertrap fault. They practised public sector project management – i.e.give someone the job-title and hope.
    But we as investors are not the only ones hurt. Kickstarter is damaged as well and I think they need to look at their side of the crowd-funding process. How can due diligence be assured, how can risk be better defined and evaluated, stage payments against tangible results, strengthening of governance. But in doing these we risk adding to much overhead cost.
    We as investors need to do due diligence as well and be aware of what we are risking. I think Kickstarter project investing should be considered by investors the same as bets in a poker game. Don’t bet what you can’t afford and only bet what you are willing to lose.
    I am angry but I shall have a sleep before I commit myself to any course of action.

    Dan Upton on March 3
    To those clamoring for a class action suit…I can predict what will happen. Currently, there’s a fund that they’re offering to use to pay out 20% refunds. Getting a law firm to represent the class and going through all of the legal procedures will first draw out any payment process, but more relevantly will end up with that fund being diminished by TT’s legal expenses (they said some of the backer money already went to fending off the Redsnap name suit), and then the law firm will skim their payment out of whatever’s left. End result: backers will get less refund less expediently.
    Alternately, the court case finds that they should create a settlement fund that would actually pay out more than has been offered…which they’ve said they don’t have and can’t get loans for, so they’ll file bankruptcy and not have to pay anything out anyway.
    In other words, not a very useful approach.

    Gerry on March 3
    I was originally regrettably accepting of the 20% deal, or some variation close to that, but a lot of good points have been made. They haven’t been straightforward with us the whole time, and the older TOS we signed up under is pretty clear.

    Tim Mackey on March 3
    Other backers have posted this, but I’ll just post it again since the claims TT has been making about the TOS don’t match up with the actual TOS that applied to their project: https://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use/oct2012…
    “Project Creators are required to fulfill all rewards of their successful fundraising campaigns or refund any Backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill.”
    It’s only in the new TOS, which does not apply to your project, that anything is said about a partial refund: https://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use/
    This whole thing might be understandable if we had been kept informed of your difficulties, but over the past several months, you have misrepresented the status of this project. Just in December, you announced a firm shipping date: “We’ve just had some updated information from our manufacturers, which means we can wonderfully, at long last, announce Triggertrap Ada’s final shipping date. That’s right, folks – it’s a fact: Triggertrap Ada will be shipping in May 2015.” How can you announce a final shipping date as a fact when you haven’t even gotten cost estimates from your manufacturers? The idea is absurd!

    Eric Bolden on March 3
    What I find most disturbing, is that the larget bulk of our money, 30%, went into their pockets!! at least they are honest about robbing us!! Sign me up for that lawsuit!

    ndnihil on March 3
    So just to get this clear, you’re screwing over the people that helped you start the company for this one product, so you can keep it going with an entirely different product? Sign me up for the class action lawsuit.

    Craig Staples on March 3
    So Haje, I guess your 2012 book titled “Creative EVIL Photography” was actually about screwing people that back your projects.

    David Lewinsohn on March 3
    Firstly, I would join a class action law suit against Triggertrap. This is a registered company with full legal responsibilities to its investors.
    I believe they are under a moral obligation, if not a legal one, to take out a loan to complete this project and supply in full to all its investors.
    I was one of many that increased their investment by adding additional items such as multiple Adas, multiple mobiles multiple cables, other accessories,etc.
    Have these additional orders been paid for? If so, apart from the still born Ada, why haven’t the other parts been offered to be sent?
    I believed in this company as it had a track record.
    This belief appears to be false, as I am now being offered virtually nothing for the ~16 months wait for this product.
    I am upset in the extreme and look forward to either a better offer from Triggertrap or join a class action law suit against them.
    David

    Richard J R Fletcher on March 3
    Ok, not going to put this down quite yet as I have now read the correct TOC as in force at the time of funding, sorry but there is no option on partial refund. As the TOCs refered to in the FAQ are dated October 2014, they cannot apply to the contract as that would be introducing additional terms after the contract was formed. I will logged this issue with Kickstarter (for all I can see that will make any difference).
    As I read it it is a simple case, accept you owe everyone 100% and then file for adminstration as you don’t have the cash or very very quickly figure out a way to get this project back on track. However, as you potentially owe nearly £300k (I doubt the words of someone at KS will be an effective defence) imho there is a possibity you are trying to continue to trade as an insolvent company.
    Of course if the rest of the business has the cash sufficient to refund or manufacturer (be it at a loss) then the business is not insolvent but equally that money must be used to resolve this issue either way. I can’t enviage that you can separate the risk of developing the Ada from your core and succesful business in an effort to save the rest of the business from your poor project management.

    eric gagnon on March 3
    I’ve put 150 pounds on this thing, and now i can use 75 pounds in the store… but a cable is only 22 pounds. I don’t need 3-4 cables…. :\

    Craftypics on March 3
    Don’t forget the bank interest Triggertrap has been getting since they took our cash November 2013

    Will Wu on March 3
    I am with my fellow backers here, I’d write a bunch of excuses why I would like a full refund, but it won’t have anything that hasn’t already been expressed in previous posts.
    If Kickstarter insists that only a partial refund is acceptable then I would personally like to hear it from them and quoting the TOS.
    Using our money for their own R&D for their company is definitely fraud.

    Craftypics on March 3
    This old article just rubs salt into the wounds. The people behind this were not new startups.
    http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2012/01/triggertrap-the-story/

    Robert on March 3
    I’d rather pay 20% more for the final product than getting 20% back. Was this solution discussed here?

    Richard J R Fletcher on March 3
    I think this will be my last comment or I will spend too much time stewing on this and well I guess life to too short really, the majority of the money is gone, I will decide what to do with the offered refund shortly but count on me not just giving it to TT to run your business (an unacceptable default option given the situation).
    I have read the sales pitch again and quote the following.
    “We’re not new to this – and having previously taken a project successfully through Kickstarter, we are very aware of the numerous risks and challenges that creators face.
    Ada is already at late stage in the development process, and we are working with experienced industrial designers and electronic engineers to help mitigate risk. As a company we have experience in manufacturing electronics in China, as well as the logistics involved in shipping to our tens of thousands of existing customers around the world.
    That said, all projects face risks and challenges. These are some of the blips on our risk radar:
    FCC and CE testing. The devices have been developed to meet the emissions criteria for both FCC and CE marking, but until the final prototype is complete we will not be able to do the actual testing. This may mean we need additional revisions to the electronics to pass the tests, which could cause delays.
    Sourcing. We have several quotes from manufacturers, but until we know how successful this Kickstarter project is, we can’t get final costings and finalise our negotiations with the manufacturers.
    Manufacture. We have extensive experience in manufacturing products in China: both our first Kickstarter products and our popular Triggertrap Mobile Dongle are manufactured there. However, manufacturing in the Far East isn’t without risks. One key challenge is quality control. For Ada, we are producing fixtures that will extensively test the devices as they are manufactured. As manufacturing starts we will keep a very close eye on quality, both in person, and through experienced QC inspectors.”
    So we accept risks backing a KS project but too be fair this prject seemed to have few risks, you admit you were experienced following the succesful T1 funded project.
    You highlight potential pitfalls in the CE testing etc… but only in so much as a possible delay in delivery.
    However, whilst the risk in manufacturing is highlighted you dismiss this with extensive experience selling the point that effectively you have already costed manufacturing, obviously essential given that you pitch your target low at just £50k.
    So I just sit and try to figure out how a product appearing to be already near completion of the development stage where all you need to do finalising the prototype and obtaining approvals takes over £200k to develop and then you find out the piggy bank is virtually empty and you no longer have the cash to make products. I now realise that the Ada was no where near the stage of development indicated as the time of the KS campaign or worst still the sudden surge of cash meant you lost any sense of control, figuring that the endless cash allowed you to develop forever.
    I read, but correct me if I’m wrong, you have a virtually finished product read to manufacture. However, you have no cash to fund that process. This is clearly pure mismanagement of the project and penalising the backers by pulling the product at the 11th hour is unacceptable. If you have a project then either find a way to make it and provide it to the backers. Alternatively, and I admit regretfully file for administration, which I accept we all loose in the circumstance. However, TT don’t seem to have taken any risk on this or risk loosing out in this fiasco. In reality I doubt the TT brand is going to be worth a great deal given that the internet has a habit of not forgetting.

    Corey on March 3
    So now piecing together the time line…

    Posted on their site today:

    When did you find out this was going to happen?
    By the time we discovered what the exact situation was around the end of December 2014, the damage had already been done: The invoices for development costs had all been paid, and there wasn’t enough left in our Ada war fund to be able to deliver on our Kickstarter campaign.

    Back on Dec 16th, they went out of their way (posted just 4 days after the previous update)

    I know we posted an update very recently, but we’ve just had some updated information from our manufacturers, which means we can wonderfully, at long last, announce Triggertrap Ada’s final shipping date. That’s right, folks – it’s a fact: Triggertrap Ada will be shipping in May 2015.
    No matter what TOC you apply to this project, this is not in the spirit that KS presses of being open and honest with backers. How can you go out of your way to post a hard delivery month when you don’t have the delivery even priced out or worse, already know you can’t afford it and are just buying time.

    Darren Fast on March 3
    I must say that I’m very disappointed. I backed this project after supporting the original triggertrap and assumed that the management had learned from their previous mistakes and experience. Apparently that is not the case. My read of the terms of service does suggest that a full refund is indeed due and I will be asking Kickstarter to make a formal decision on what type of refund is appropriate in this circumstance. It does appear that management was not watching the finances of the company and must share in some of the loss as they definitely led the backers to believe that the project was on track albeit late. Perhaps new management with strong manufacturing expertise should take over the company.
    At a minimum:
    -The full finances for the project (even though they are not audited) should be posted publicly
    -The current backer debts could be converted to shares in the current company (current management should give up about 80% of the company to the backers) and backers could choose to invest further in a real management team
    -There should be some options to build a scaled down version of the triggers (maybe just the base unit and one or two sensors) as a show of good faith.
    -the source code and any IP should be protected until this issue is settled.

    steve wood on March 3
    @Triggertrap, Please add into your woefully inadequate FAQ’s a response to the correct terms of service you agreed to. Lots of people asking here, and preeetty sure it’s not going to go away. You may want to seek appropriate legal advice before you do so though. I suspect others will be seeking similar advice.

    Stephen Cottle on March 3
    Craftypics – if you are talking about extra cables that was done after ie through backerkit – you wouldn’t have been charged for those

    Craftypics on March 3
    Adding insult to injury is that Amazon payments also take a cut from International backers at the time the pledge is processed. Seems everyone else wins whilst the backers get shafted from every direction

    Craftypics on March 3
    Isaiah is correct that the Kickstarter T&C >> https://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use/oct2012 means that the refund needs to be full – there is no mention of Partial refunds
    “Project Creators are required to fulfill all rewards of their successful fundraising campaigns or refund any Backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill”
    What about all the extras such as additional camera cables that were ordered and paid for ??
    I really fail to see how they can all of a sudden had realised the cost of manufacturing makes it unprofittable to make. Ive backed other Kickstarter projects where the costs blew out and the Project creators wore that cost and learnt from their mistakes. They base the rewards of Due diligence and research and in this case the company has previously been through with the Triggertrap V1. They KNOW the issues prior to starting a new campaign. The updates have never indicated ANY financial issue – just delays in getting the product out. This is to be expected with KS projects and is the sole reason backers get in early. Presumably once Triggertrap had been made and backers had been supplied with their units. Word would spread and others would want one and would have to pay a higher price.
    In my opinion given that they state everything is ready to go – hardware and software. FUnds should be pulled from the other part of their business to fullfill the orders. The only thing that I would consider acceptable for them to reneg on would be some of the extras such as the Tripod stands

    Troy Jones on March 3
    Further more just found this tweet “@Triggertrap: Looking for a charity that ties in with your interests? Check out @PhotoVoice ! Helping communities through photography” sent 2 days ago… and there included on our email today as an option for Haje to kindly donate our last 20% of our money to.. Wired

    MDDCFlyer on March 3
    I would suggest that everyone will also submit a ticket to Kickstarter about the full refund as due according to the terms of service. 2000 people submitting a ticket will get Kickstarter attention.(Though I wonder what can they do).

    David Chuba on March 3
    “Project Creators are required to fulfill all rewards of their successful fundraising campaigns or refund any Backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill.”
    This is directly from Kickstarters terms of service for projects started before October 2014.
    I want a full refund of my money as required by Kickstarter. If Triggertrap has to go out of business so be it.
    They are not willing to contribute any of their money to this fraudulent failure but want us to pay for every penny of it.

    Corey on March 3
    I like how they say they have invested in this project… If they claim they have 20% cash left, they actually have invested NONE of their own money, but rather just ours.

    Paul Brown on March 3
    I think we have ranted enough. We just need to do a law suit against Triggertrap. I have no idea how to kick that off but I am in UK if that helps.
    Does anyone have any idea how we can start the process and how we can gather the names of all involved?

    Troy Jones on March 3
    Sadly I think he must of got too greedy this project became nothing more then a front when the funding reached 290k the money was been used to fund his life style/other projects/interests he even had time to write http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ilex-Introduction-Photography-Capturing-Whatever/dp/1781579865/ref=sr_1_1… while devolving the ada?
    Hope HMRC can shed some more light on this guy.

    Matthew Humphreys on March 3
    Earlier Triggertrap posted:
    “We have done everything we can to answer as many of your e-mails as possible today, and to reply to as many of the Backer forms as we can. It’s been a 12 hour day, so we need to call it a day for now, but we’ll be back to help more tomorrow.”
    So you tell 2,000 people that they have collectively lost over £200,000 and you have the audacity to complain about working a 12 hour day?
    I’m afraid this just goes to show that you are out of touch with the Backers.
    Without us you wouldn’t be were you are now. Please don’t forget you have spent many months spending £200k of our money. I guess we’ve paid for your flights, hotels, meals etc etc. Even if you surrender the IPR you will still have made connects and learnt information which will be of benefit to triggertrap in the future. We have paid for this.
    Yet you can’t be be bothered to put in some extra hours (unless TriggerTrap is only one employee now, which I doubt) to give some clear answers to our questions.
    I’m afraid you have a lot to learn about PR and disaster management. Be in no doubt, this is a disaster.
    If I had just told people they had lost £200k I don’t think I’d be able to sleep at night and would be trying to give as much honest and clear information as possible. Not running off home.
    The answers on the FAQ are so generic they are virtually worthless.
    For example: You don’t want to spend any more on audited accounts, as it will further deplete the money invested by the backers. Why didn’t someone think of this before they spent 80% of the funds without producing a single product for a backer? I’m sorry but none of this makes any sense. It’s no good being prudent now. Now is the time for transparency and some morals. Not hiding behind saving money.
    You don’t want to do anything which may jeopardise your future business. I’m afraid you (and your board of directors) should have thought about that before you spent 80% of the budget without manufacturing a single product. You should have procedures in place for financial control.
    You need to take a look at your internal procedures and determine who, if anyone is responsible for this enormous oversight.
    This is not something which happened overnight, yet none of this was communicated to your backers.
    We do still not have sensible answers to how you can commit to delivery dates a matter of weeks ago – yet suddenly decide that the project is cancelled?
    As has been pointed out elsewhere, a proportion of the “rewards” were existing technology, but you now claim to be unable to deliver those also.
    Finally I think we deserve some further explanations on the risks to the project. The original details imply that “the devices have been developed” and that ” We have several quotes from manufacturers” and “We have extensive experience in manufacturing products in China”. It is on this basis that I made my pledge. You claimed to know what you were doing.
    It is now apparent that the designs were not complete and that the quotes were either inaccurate or for completely different products to those in the pledges.
    I feel that these statements have now been proven to be not 100% accurate, yet were the basis on which we pledged.
    The original story mentions that quality control of the products manufactured in China was a risk. There are now 2,000 people who wish that this was a problem that had been encountered.

    Duncan Moffat on March 3
    They are weasels. The FAQ is just a bunch of non-committal crap designed to not incriminate themselves.
    Such gems as:
    As a small limited company, there is no legal requirement for us to file audited accounts at the moment.
    They also say that the unit cost is $1000 because that is how much the prototypes cost. If they have a final design it will cost nowhere near that amount. They know this, we know this, but they are deliberately withholding the truth.
    I think I am done with Kickstarter, too. The joke that has been the latest Pebble launch and now this. This is not a community site anymore, it is just another example of corporate greed.

    Norman Beer on March 3
    @The JJ
    Subject: Your payment to Triggertrap Redsnap: Modular Camera Trigger has succeeded.
    Your pledge was processed successfully!
    Payment details:
    Project: Triggertrap Redsnap: Modular Camera Trigger
    Project creator: Triggertrap
    Date: November 15, 2013
    Pledge amount collected: £190.00
    Payment method:

    The JJ on March 3
    @Norman
    IM in the EU – I cannot seem to find my Amazon payments confirmation email. What else should I be looking for in email – I don’t delete anything so its somewhere. Any key words other than kickstarter and amazon payments?
    Thanks

    Norman Beer on March 3
    Anyone else realize that “End of May” puts you well past the 60 day limit on recovery from your credit card company? The claim will then be “Oh, we told you March 2nd & it’s now May 29th so you can’t file a claim.”
    If you notify your credit card company today and file a Billing Dispute (you may need to ask for the fraud department to handle it as it’s already past the initial deadline) that today is the Date of Discovery of the possible fraud, then get a dispute number, you’ll have something to stand on if and when you receive a partial refund.
    Also, in some jurisdictions, waiting to take them to court more than 45 days after date of discovery weakens your case or could even make it null and void. Hence, another possible ploy of TT’s part.
    As I already mentioned once below but in order to keep it in one place here it is again:
    If you are in the United States you will likely see two charges on your account:
    KickStarter = $305.86
    Foreign Transaction Fee = $8.25
    Date of Withdrawal for the USA: November 15, 2013
    The FTF may vary as might the amount as it depends on the conversion rate at the time of the charge.

    Troy Jones on March 3
    Haje Jan Kamps is a huge fan of crowdfunding even written a book
    http://kamps.org
    https://uk.linkedin.com/in/hjkamps

    Duncan Moffat on March 3
    @Ben Appleton
    That is a pathetic response from triggertrap. Stealing half a million dollars from 2000 people because you want to offer “ongoing support” for your other projects is just crap.
    They have basically admitted that they could fulfill orders if they wanted to by taking a loan out against the company (or reinvesting the profits that they have previously made) and that is exactly what they should do. You live and die by your decisions and you obviously made a lot of bad ones with Ada. You should be paying for them, not us.
    Nothing is going to happen, though. They are obviously willing to take our money but not risk theirs. The FAQ is just so they don’t have to talk to the poor saps who they have just defrauded. There have been about 10 comments an hour for the past few hours and you are trying to say that you don’t have the time to respond to everybody’s comments?

    Creator Triggertrap on March 3
    Hey everyone,
    We have done everything we can to answer as many of your e-mails as possible today, and to reply to as many of the Backer forms as we can. It’s been a 12 hour day, so we need to call it a day for now, but we’ll be back to help more tomorrow.
    Until then, we’ve updated our FAQ with as many of your questions as we could: https://triggertrap.reamaze.com/kb/triggertrap-redsnap
    See you all tomorrow,
    Team Triggertrap

    Isaiah Tanenbaum on March 3
    I agree, Jears. A viable way forward, such as a payment plan over time, will allow both backers and TT to carry on. Anything short of that will invite legal action, ESPECIALLY since TT shared their plans to use the prototype to develop future products, presumably at a profit.
    Look, TT, I believe you guys are honest. I really do. You screwed up, big time. Making things is hard.
    But this proposal is shameful, and not according to the TOS to which we agreed when we gave you our money, and if you think this is over just because you say it’s the best you feel like doing, you’re in for some rude legal surprises.
    Do better.

    Dan Upton on March 3
    Also, in their defense…there’s a lot of “you overfunded by this much, how did you possibly run out of money?” Keep in mind that except for the 12 backers who only pledged at the “warm electronic fuzzies” level, everybody else who funded was owed at least one device. It’s not like the 50k target would fund every device ordered no matter what and the remaining 240k is just free development money. Sure, it increased their buffer by a certain amount (clearly not by enough,) but the cost per backer doesn’t just drop to 0 after a given point.

    Jears on March 3
    Well the FAQ appeared sooner than I expected (if lost down the page, it is here:https://triggertrap.reamaze.com/kb/triggertrap-redsnap).
    Your project management and comunication has been abysmal.
    That said, watching a local London start-up crash company is not how I get my jollies. I urge you to consider offering a longer-term solution for those who might like to see Triggertrap carry on and (hopefully, not guaranteed) be a viable buisness with other products.

    Corey on March 3
    Including the comment that they will use things learned with this project in future projects was a huge oversight on their part. From here on out, anything new they develop that is anywhere in the camera triggering / sound, light detection space was paid for by all of us and unless we receive full refunds (i.e. they buy us out of that interest), we are entitled to a share of all of that.

    I also question the little bit at the bottom of their % accounting of contractors & staff costs. Since that is a significant line item, I would want to see an accounting for the time that was spent on this project to ensure the hours were allocated properly between the ongoing business and the time spend directly on this project.

    I also don’t see anything in the terms and conditions that apply to this project that allow them to deduct for the costs actually spent on the project. I would also like to point out that if this is settled at 20% cash / 50% store credit (likely their cost gets them back to 20% actual impact), they will be suffering NO FINANCIAL IMPACT of this failure, while we being asked to take ALL the burden of something that was completely in their hands. AT LEAST they should have started at some split of the loss (like 60/40 or 50/50 for example), which would get us to a 60% cash refund (the 20% is ours and still in the bank, then splitting the other 80% 50/50).

    Stephen Cottle on March 3
    Didnt he leave due to his cock up on the original manufacturing issues

    The JJ on March 3
    @ Haje Jan Kamps
    I want a statement of account. A detailed statement noting everything that transpired over the year. Something transparent and accountable, something real and tangeable rather than just “we failed”. Honesty is nothing without transparency!
    Kickstarter TOS may have you covered as you cower behind it, we want something! And no its not the product because yes you are right this is not a store. We want what we came into this with. We want transparency. We want the statment of account!!
    You may be a just a beumb in the whole company / product world but reputation is all you have! 2000 backers may not make a negative impact but I for one shall try through all means nescasary.
    We deserve a statement of account!! We deserve to see where our money went. MY money!! Less than 3 weeks ago you were going on about updates and work and lasers. A bunch of HORSE $H1T!! You knew – your accounts knew – or that is just plain stupidity. You did not just look into you piggy bank and say “OK this week we will update…hmmm next week we ran out of money!!” Pathetic
    STATEMENT OF ACCOUNT NOW!! Someone has to be accountable! There has to be transparency!! No more corporate double talk. No one is feeling sorry for you!
    I also agree that you should start liquidating and pay 100% of your backers 100%. KS has your back – so does the pitiful laws that govern it, the net and all scammers of the world that use and abuse funds withput accountability.
    SO WHEN CAN WE HAVE THE DETAILED STATEMENT OF ACCOUNT. We wait….then we talk refund!!
    Reedeem yourself, this project and your company!

    Troy Jones on March 3
    Mr Matthew Solomon (Kane) director of triggertrap limited left the company 25/06/2014 anyone else suspicious yet?

    Troy Jones on March 3
    Well good news for us.
    TRIGGERTRAP LTD
    NO. 1
    LONDON BRIDGE
    LONDON
    SE1 9BG
    Company No. 07742161
    Triggertrap is a ltd company it has to file its accounts with companies house. They are not going to get away with this if serious fraud has been committed they will not be able to get away with it

    Norman Beer on March 3
    If you are in the United States you will likely see two charges on your account:
    KickStarter = $305.86
    Foreign Transaction Fee = $8.25
    The FTF may vary as might the amount as it depends on the conversion rate at the time of the charge.

    Stephen Cottle on March 3
    ?? whats that Troy

    Troy Jones on March 3
    Interesting
    22/12/2014
    22/12/2014
    28/11/2014
    22/07/2014 22/07/2014 15/07/2014
    15/07/2014
    15/07/2014 15/07/2014 14/07/2014 13/05/2014 18/12/2013 09/09/2013 06/09/2013
    01/08/2013
    FORM
    AR01
    LATEST SOC
    AD01
    SH06 SH03 RES01
    RES13
    RES01 TM01 TM01 AA AR01 AR01 CH01
    RES01
    DESCRIPTION
    02/12/14 FULL LIST
    22/12/14 STATEMENT OF CAPITAL;GBP 100
    REGISTERED OFFICE CHANGED ON 28/11/2014 FROMC/O UNIT 27777 BEAK STREETLONDONW1F 9DB
    25/06/14 STATEMENT OF CAPITAL GBP 80.20
    RETURN OF PURCHASE OF OWN SHARES
    ADOPT ARTICLES 25/06/2014
    PURCHASE CONTRACT 25/06/2014
    ADOPT ARTICLES 25/06/2014
    TERMINATE DIR APPOINTMENT
    APPOINTMENT TERMINATED, DIRECTOR MATTHEW KANE
    31/08/13 TOTAL EXEMPTION SMALL
    02/12/13 FULL LIST
    16/08/13 FULL LIST
    DIRECTOR’S CHANGE OF PARTICULARS / MATTHEW SOLOMON KANE / 03/09/2012
    ADOPT ARTICLES 17/07/2013

    ari steffen on March 3
    I started a new
    http://forum.triggertrap.com/discussion/818/shame-on-triggertrap-triggertrap-is-a-scam-lawsuits-in-the-works-boycott-this-company…

    Isaiah Tanenbaum on March 3
    Great point Stephen. TT, offering to sell me something I already bought is hardly a “satisfying” way forward.

    Stephen Cottle on March 3
    Some of you are forgetting that the top pledges not only have the ada but all the bits to go with it – that includes all the goods you can buy in the shop. So you want 50% offf something that in theory we already own in our pledge ie Mobile dongle, cables etc….yet they want us to spend more money on such items – disgusting

    Dan Upton on March 3
    I guess at this point I’ll keep most of my rants and complaints to myself–there’s nothing much I can say (politely or otherwise) that hasn’t been said by many other posters. I appreciate that the CEO has been around and answering though–I always feel bad about the idea of yelling at customer service reps who had absolutely nothing to do with the bad situation a customer ended up in.
    I will say though that even if it were not for the part where apparently a 50% refund is more than enough to buy everything in the TT store, as a Windows Phone user, the option of Android or iOS is useless to me. Of course, if you’re already overbudgeted and underdelivered for one project, it’s absurd to imagine you throwing together a new Windows TT Mobile app just to satisfy a small subset of backers.

    Paul Brown on March 3
    @Triggertrap – Stop hiding behind your team tag. PLease list your names when replying as we do

    Boudewijn Drenkelford on March 3
    @Triggertrap – Then start helping by answering our questions……..

    Creator Triggertrap on March 3
    @Norman, we are just trying to help – if you’d rather be using another page, that’s fine, too!
    – Team Triggertrap

    Paul Brown on March 3
    Another great source of information.
    Reply on Forum from a PLedger asking when the product will ship as they had not received any updates .
    ‘Our latest update has in fact announced the shipping date which has now been confirmed by our manufacturers. You can see the rest of the updates over at http://tri.gg/kick. We can wholeheartedly assure you that this isn’t a scam of any sort. ‘
    Shipping dates confirmed by Manufacturer? Scam?

    Norman Beer on March 3
    I am once again hereby giving you legal notice that you have 24 hours to refund all of my funds to my account. Failure to do so may result in legal.

    Norman Beer on March 3
    Creator Triggertrap 2 minutes ago
    Hey everyone – You are more than welcome to use the Triggertrap Ada forum for discussions – it’s available here: http://forum.triggertrap.com/categories/triggertrap-ada
    Team Triggertrap
    RIGHT! Like we would discuss this on a page that YOU control? You are seriously delusional if you think that’s a good idea on our part!

    ari steffen on March 3
    what Isaiah said!

    Norman Beer on March 3
    I sent this to Haji this morning and he told me that he was told by KickStarter that they don’t have to follow those rules or refund all of the money. When I asked him who he spoke with he refused to answer. Sorry buddy but if you claim you have it on good authority and are hanging your entire company on that one persons word and therefore not refund fully the investors, you HAVE to tell us who you spoke with and exactly what they said.
    From Haji:
    Dear Norman,
    Respectfully, I disagree with the way you are reading Kickstarter’s TOS, and we’ve had this clarified with Kickstarter before we announced the cancellation of the project.
    You are welcome to disagree, of course – and if so, it would be great if you could contact Kickstarter directly to ask them to clarify.
    Best,
    ~Haje
    Dear Norman,
    I appreciate your feedback and your ongoing support, both on Kickstarter and as a customer, and I’m sorry we’ve let you down.
    As a fellow business owner, though, I’m sure you can see our side, too: If we attempt a 100% refund, we will go out of business. Our staff will be out of jobs. And our current customers (yourself included) will be without support for our current products.
    You are right in that this might very well spell the end of the company, but I hope that’s not how things pan out.
    All the best and thank you again,
    ~Haje
    Dear Norman,
    I’m saying that we asked for clarification from Kickstarter, and were informed that refunding the remainder of the funds was the correct procedure in our situation.
    Thank you,
    ~Haje
    Norman; It’s not my place to hand out people’s contact details without their consent.
    Kickstarter can be contacted on support@kickstarter.com
    Best,
    ~Haje
    Norman,
    It is not my place to share people’s details, so yes, I am not willing to share who I spoke with. Please contact Kickstarter directly for a clarification from them.
    Best,
    ~Haje

    Haje Jan Kamps
    CEO, Triggertrap
    From: https://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use/oct2012
    Project Creators are required to fulfill all rewards of their successful fundraising campaigns or refund any Backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill.

    Creator Triggertrap on March 3
    Hey everyone – You are more than welcome to use the Triggertrap Ada forum for discussions – it’s available here: http://forum.triggertrap.com/categories/triggertrap-ada
    Team Triggertrap

    tad davis on March 3
    Store credit would be useful if I could find a store. Oh you mean cables and an app? Ah cute store

    Paul Brown on March 3
    Isaiah – Brilliant find. It is very clearly stated.
    Troy – why not start a Yahoo or google group?

    Troy Jones on March 3
    Does anyone have a private forum we can use?
    I think we have a good case and already gathered quite a bit of evidence between us..
    https://www.gov.uk/make-court-claim-for-money/overview

    Isaiah Tanenbaum on March 3
    Triggertrap your FAQ links to the wrong Terms of Service. The proper TOS that applies to projects launched prior to October of 2014 is this one:
    https://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use/oct2012
    “A Project Creator is not required to grant a Backer’s request for a refund unless the Project Creator is unable or unwilling to fulfill the reward. Project Creators are required to fulfill all rewards of their successful fundraising campaigns OR REFUND ANY BACKER WHOSE REWARD THEY DO NOT OR CANNOT FULFILL.”
    Emphasis mine. This is clear and unambiguous. Nothing about partial refunds or store credit or just shrugging and walking away with our money. You are required to grant a refund, both morally as well as contractually.
    You run a profitable and established company and fully admit that you will be using the prototypes WE paid for to create future products. Because I do believe that you failed mostly honestly, I’m willing to accept a payment plan if your “war chest” is exhausted. You are so interested in keeping your business going, so keep it going while garnishing the profits from these future products.
    Or I, and the other backers, will see you in court. We might not get 100% but we will do better than 20%. And it sure as hell will cost you and your company more in the long run.

    ari steffen on March 3
    This will reflect poorly on your company. i will be reviewing trigger trap products on amazon and elsewhere. http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_nr_seeall_1…

    Paul Brown on March 3
    FAQ = Poor excuses.
    The timeline doesn’t make sense. You realised at the end of December yet you still sent an update on Jan 22nd saying all is fine. That was a blatant lie.
    You also listed in previous 2014 updates that you were 2 weeks away from production. Again a lie.
    You have managed my money very badly. You have offered me a poor resolution. You are now going to offer the product, that I paid for, to the world and maybe use that design and the prototypes in future TT products.
    Sorry, that is unacceptable. I would 100% support a law suit against TT and even if it means the company goes bust. To be honest, I wouldn’t want to work for a company that treated its investors in such a way AND that managed projects in such a way.

    Richard J R Fletcher on March 3
    I’m torn with cashing in for something back or hanging out for a long haul and probably nothing.
    I full accept there is a degree of risk pledging on KS but then again the TT ada sales pitch was in my view pretty clear that the risk was very low. No doubt something that reasured the backers and brought people in the pledge.
    I think the difference here is that over £200k has been burnt clearly developing a product that could there barely be described as a prototype at the start of the KS campaign, given the changes over the intervening period. This goes against KS policy that a working prototype is demonstrated. In reality TT had nothing and in that grossly under estimated the funds required to complete the project. If they had spent £200k before reaching KS then either they would have been asking for high pledges (something I would be unlikely to have been backed) or realised that it is was longer term project and shelved it. With the promise of delivery I accepted the delays but then in that the delays were the cost… if the majority of that work had pre-dated KS campaign then there would habe been no delay and no extra costs.
    I can’t help but feel that the extra cash obtained over the target was the problem, more cash ment more opertunity to spend a little more to make it better. In reality the outcome was then inevitable in that no one figured some cash should be left to pay for manufacturing! This is a disaster in project management.
    I really think that KS need to consider holding some of the cash (over and above the target) and only release it when a project ships. This means that the company holds a risk and also needs to carefully consider the target figure. How can it take over £200k to develop something when initially you only wanted £50k ?

    Darren Ingram on March 3
    Andreas – thanks/odd as would have expected “comments” to have shown all. I shouldn’t browse/write on a small screen :) now it is in two places. I shall consult my card issuer tomorrow (they’ve reimbursed me for other ‘failed’ projects in the past) but I had given up with Ks due to a few flakes. As a happy TT customer their rep amongst other things convinced me to trust KS/them. One or more have dropped a very big ball, that’s all I can say without hard evidence in public.

    Creator Triggertrap on March 3
    “Can we get a list of all the backers”
    Unfortunately, due to UK Data Protection legislation, we are unable to share the full set of details of our Kickstarter backers without their prior consent. If you would like access to the full list of backers, I’m afraid you’ll need to contact Kickstarter directly – they can be reached on support@kickstarter.com
    – Team Triggertrap
    PS: Our full FAQ is starting to take shape on our knowledgebase, please have a look there, under ‘Triggertrap Ada’ for an answer to the vast majority of the questions that are being asked here: https://triggertrap.reamaze.com

    Andreas on March 3
    darren, i think you commented directly on the update, not here in the “general comments” section

    Darren Ingram on March 3
    Unless I am imagining it, two messages I posted this evening have disappeared. Both were respectful and considerate. That Triggertrap founder/guru Haje has been in the states twice this year alone, according to Twitter and having a pleasant time whilst no doubt trying to resolve this problem, is a matter of public record. Should messages be disappearing, this may unduly influence my course of action.

    Andreas on March 3
    @troy and paul: reddit?

    Paul Brown on March 3
    Troy – Any ideas on how we can all get together?

    ari steffen on March 3
    shame on you trigger trap.

    Troy Jones on March 3
    This is nothing short of a scam.. I want a full refund and won’t settle for anything less.
    Might have had some sympathy if you were a start up new company but you’re a well established business. YOU HAVE TAKEN OUR MONEY AND BLOWN IT. I would encourage all backers to stick together, lets form a group, lets fight for a full refund and sue this dishonest company!! This is fraud, the accounts need to be published and every single penny needs to be accounted for!

    François Labrecque on March 3
    In my comment, I meant the V1 version of trigger trap. You could at least try the make some more V1 and send those to us backers. You made it with 77 000$ for the V1 and were not able to make a similar product with more than 500 000$. The more I think of it, the more I think it was more profitable for you to focus on the mobile device instead and let us down. Stories like this make it even more difficult for new projects as people loose confidence in this system.

    Mark Gamble on March 3
    Good considered comments Matthew Humphreys ~ can we have some answers please TT?

    Ben Appleton on March 3
    direct message reply:
    “Hi Ben,
    Thanks for your feedback. We’re really gutted that we aren’t able to get Triggertrap Ada to you and have let you down so terribly. The issue is, if we reach in to our pockets then we risk the whole company on fulfilling the backer orders alone. If that happens, the team disappears and we can’t offer you any support for Ada. It also means we abandon all of the Triggertrap users that are currently out there who have nothing to do with Triggertrap Ada, which also really wouldn’t be fair. These were big factors in our decision to cancel Ada so that we can go on to support all the Triggertrap users that are currently out there and give the money that is left to our backers. It’s far from the most fun decision we’ve ever had to make, and if we either had the option of delivering the product or offering a full refund to our backers, we honestly would.
    Again, we’re tremendously sorry for not being able to deliver Ada. If you have any questions about the refund options please don’t hesitate to ask.
    All the best,
    Helena

    Helena Vieira
    Head of Happiness
    Were you happy with the support you received? Please let us know.
    Get social with us! You can find us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and Flickr! Be sure to tag @triggertrap and #triggertrap on any awesome shots you post online!”
    Not good enough TriggerTrap.

    Paul Brown on March 3
    From their own story, under the Risk section –
    ‘Ada is already at late stage in the development process, and we are working with experienced industrial designers and electronic engineers to help mitigate risk. As a company we have experience in manufacturing electronics in China, as well as the logistics involved in shipping to our tens of thousands of existing customers around the world. ‘
    My investment was based upon their story. That statement would suggest minimal risk (If any)
    It is already at a late stage of dev ( So why so long to finish and why do they state that the costs of Dev where high?) They are working with ‘Experienced’ people to mitigate any risk? What went wrong? They are experienced in manufacturing? Prove it?
    Sorry John, I don’t mind loosing when risk is high. The risk here was low, at least that is what the story told, the product was already at the late stage of development, For months they have been blowing horns saying how wonderful it is. 2 or 3 updates ago they said they were going to production and you had ‘2 weeks’ to finalise any extras. Yet today they say they have failed.

    Jears on March 3
    It may not be optimal, but I’ll add my name to the list of backers who would prefer the answers and discussion to happen here, in the open, and not in an FAQ or private emails.

    John Rees on March 3
    Paul Brown about 1 hour ago: John, This is similar to Tesco’s. They issued a statement about their finances that caused investors to invest.
    The difference being that Tesco are a public limited company and their duty to disclose is greater than a private limited company, and in the case of Triggertrap one that doesn’t have to be audited. Triggertrap produced the dongle in two forms so, on the face of it, they had manufacturing experience. That the costing was incomplete and wrong is our misfortune.
    I’ve lost less money on this than on a box full of various photographic gizmos bought over the years that promised to make me the world’s best photographer but which either failed to work or whose instructions were in a language I found incompressible.

    Jamie Homes on March 3
    Absolutely disgusting, you should be ashamed of yourselves. You are currently no better than common criminals, due to your naivety, arrogance and dishonesty right through to the end.
    You need to show your finances and explain the expenditure as to where the huge overfunding has been spent. Otherwise it looks like common theft.
    The inadequate people supposedly managing this project obviously had no idea what they were doing. Kickstarter needs to take action over these people and start holding them accountable. Any money over the original funding target should be held within ESCROW accounts so to ensure these people can’t get away with what can only be described as theft.
    As for the inadequate Refund offer, that is as much of a joke as the project management.
    I suggest you rethink your refund options ASAP.

    Stephen Cottle on March 3
    That 50k they originally wanted was basically spent on just the staffing – 30% = £87k, so how did you even budget the project in the first place!!

    geoff foden on March 3
    I know you are disappointed but I am feeling rather ripped off.
    As i understand it, I can either:
    put all the credit into a dongle in the shop (which costs 29.99 for the MD3-N3) and have then managed to reduce £190 into a cable worth £29.99… a loss of £160
    put it all towards R&D for you to do what with? remember my original pledge and if you ever are able to re-work the kickstarter project, i would have to pay full price again, but it’s ok because my name is on your website?
    or receive the £38 due via the kickstarter pledge and use that to buy the MD3-N3 cable and then still have a wonderful £8 left?
    or receive nothing but £38 goes to some charity?
    I had thought the whole pledge was protected under the kick-starter initiative and what’s happened now is that I will never use it (Kickstarter) again because £190 is too much money to simply throw away once, never mind on any other project that can’t properly budget its own costs.
    Has any of this ADA-triggertrap money gone towards funding or covering costs of any other project?
    How can a requested £50k project, receiving nearly six times that amount, still fail? At what point did you look at the sums and think it won’t work?
    bitterly disappointed.
    geoff.

    François Labrecque on March 3
    Seems like some people got 2 years worth of pay without focussing on the original plan. It looks also like you put a lot of effort (and maybe some of our money) on your mobile device. Maybe you could make a couple of T1 and give them to us backers so we can do watch we love most…pictures. And how rude it is too try to sell us the mobile device when it was in the pledge already. You could at least send them with the money left.

    Stephen Cottle on March 3
    It even more of a shambles the way you skirting round the issue and not properly talking to us

    Paul Brown on March 3
    Having a 1 way communication like an FAQ is not optimal. Live discussion is better. Why not open up a session on one of the global conferencing platforms so you can face the people you are so saddened at upsetting? Of course the attendees would need to agree to be courteous. But simply ‘TELLING’ us answers isn’t the best way to deal with this. Come on guys

    Creator Triggertrap on March 3
    Everyone – Replying to these comments is not the greatest way of keeping a good dialogue going: We have received more than 150 comments and more than 300 e-mails so far, and we are (understandably, hopefully) struggling to stay on top of things.
    We are in the process of putting together a FAQ in our knowledgebase – we will answer the most frequently asked questions here: https://triggertrap.reamaze.com/kb/frequently-asked-questions
    Stay tuned, and sorry for the delay.
    Best,
    Team Triggertrap

    steve wood on March 3
    Expecting to see the intellectual rights to the product sold for a nominal fee to another company, then this one goes bye-bye.
    @Paul Brown, don’t message directly please, let’s at least try and keep something transparent here instead of TT trying to be secrec squirrel about it
    @Triggertrap, why suggest offline discussion? We are all in the same boat, albeit sinking. I think we all deserve to have the same information divulged.

    Dominik Deobald on March 3
    https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/triggertrap/triggertrap-redsnap-modular-camera-trigger/backers

    Paul Brown on March 3
    Can we get a list of the backers?

    Stephen Bucala on March 3
    You guys mismanaged OUR money, were NOT transparent with your backers, obviously knew more than your posts let on, and threw OUR money away. 50,000 with 290386 reached….. You guys have robbed us knowingly. Full refund or the promised product plain and simple. This is disgusting, and insanely poor practice. As for the people saying, you shouldnt back if you can’t afford it….thats not what this site is about. It’s about faith and believing in something that you can be a part of, so you invest in that even if it makes it a bight tight. But when a company like this has that much backing and then SPENDS 80% of that, without offering a full refund or a product!? Thats simply lying and robbing us of our money and faith.

    MDDCFlyer on March 3
    Couple of random thoughts:
    1. The fact that TT cannot get a bridge investment and/or loan at this stage, when presumably the development is done, is the biggest red flag I can see. I doubt we even see the partial refund back.
    2. As said below – There is value in the product developed so far. As we paid for its development, I think TT should publish the open source for it, but rather sell what they have developed thus far and refund the backers from the proceeding of this sale.
    3. The stories TT gave and their responses do not add up. When exactly you know you cannot make the commitment? The moment that thought crossed your mind was the time to stop spending the money and make the decision. It seems it was at the beginning of the year – so at least two months worth of spending other people money was done.
    4. It just boggles my mind how you can get 500% of what you originally projected and still fail. Someone does not know their job if that was the true projection.
    5. At a minimum you owe us an audited report on exactly how that money was spent. How much of it was spent not directly on the project?
    6. Yes, Kickstarter is not a store but an investment – but when a company mishandled the investment in such a way, it deserves to get bankrupt, sold or go under. You could not just right off the debt if the money was obtained in any other way, without consent of the debtor. So your one-sided action, which means the investors will lose their money, but you will still have your jobs and salary angers a lot of people and rightly so.

    Paul Brown on March 3
    @Triggertrap – I thought maybe an open forum would be better to discuss options. I would hope you would take the effort and time to trawl these messages to look for constructive thoughts. Asking people to email direct is not very communal. As you replies stand out from everyone else you have the prefect podium to show that you do care and are thinking of options.
    Clearly you have seen that I have made a suggestion, on more than one occasion and you have decided not to answer me.
    You totally failed to give any answer to Matthew who asked some very valid questions and had valid requests.

    Stephen Cottle on March 3
    I want to have a full refund, ive been quite positive about your delay to get a better product and now this.
    20% is a piss take and the 50% off your shop is more of a piss take, there is nothing there that i want – other than kit that is now abundent as there is nothing to connect it too.

    Rob White on March 3
    “Euphoria: although we aren’t able to offer that large a refund, we can offer 50% in store credit plus we do plan on open sourcing what we have developed with your money very soon”
    That very kind of you.

    Steven wood on March 3
    Robin bastards for an established company totally unacceptable I will be ordering information on directors and sending around my debt collector !!

    Creator Triggertrap on March 3
    Euphoria: although we aren’t able to offer that large a refund, we can offer 50% in store credit plus we do plan on open sourcing what we have developed with your money very soon. first of all we’ll focus on getting backers their refunds then publish our development!
    Boudewijn Drenkelford: there should only be a mention of Ada as a product that didn’t go to market on our website but if we’ve missed somewhere, please let us know!
    Paul Brown if you have very specific questions for us, it may be better to email us at hello@tri.gg where we can provide more detailed answers for you that won’t get lost in the flow of comments.

    Boudewijn Drenkelford on March 3
    If they need £50.000,- to make Triggertrap possible and gather £290.386,- and have spend 80% of it. What remains is 20% and that is £58.077,20. That’s even more then what they were going for. As Matthew said, show us the spends and make us understand.

    Paul Brown on March 3
    John, This is similar to Tesco’s. They issued a statement about their finances that caused investors to invest. Triggertrap issued Risk information on during their open pledge and I am sure people invested based on that. They clearly stated they had expertise in manufacturing and the only risk was around quality. That was fraudulent if in fact they were now experts. I pledged based on what they told me. If they lie then they are at fault

    John Rees on March 3
    I agree with Dominik. In the UK we are warned that our investments may go up as well as down. This is all this is, an investment, not a purchase. We invested in a development that seems not to have worked out. If you can’t afford to lose then you shouldn’t speculate. It would be quite pointless in going for a winding up order because the cost of that and the administrator’s fees would eat up any cash left. Anyway we want these guys to be able to develop further the software for the Triggertrap that we have bought and maybe come up with something else that we want to buy. Kill the goose now and there will be no chance of any eggs in the future, care for it a bit and let it live.

    Rob White on March 3
    580% funded!
    100% customer dis-satisfaction.

    Dominik Deobald on March 3
    Just to make sure that everyone is aware: TriggerTrap is an UK (as in Europe) company. I’m not sure if everyone thinking about legal actions is aware that not all world is as sue-happy as America and that there may be differences between the laws in your country and the ones in the UK.
    Yes, I’d also love to get the Ada (or my money back), but we need to stay realistic.

    Ben Appleton on March 3
    Well said Matthew. Financials needed.

    Paul Brown on March 3
    Very well put Matthew Humphreys. I agree with everything you say. I am disappointed that TriggerTrap are not commenting more especially when there are some good suggestions.
    I would like to understand exactly how the money was spent and you raise a very important point, How on earth could they talk of distribution dates if they had not even agreed with manufacturer.
    The original request was 50000, they achieved nearly 6 times that. What did they spend the money on exactly?
    I still would be agreeable to pay a bit more to get the product.

    Matthew Humphreys on March 3
    As per the guidelines, this will remain respectful and considerate. There is nothing to be gained at this point by ranting and raving!
    We all just need to calmly think what we are going to do, and what information we would like Triggertrap to provide.
    Please can I request the TriggerTap provide full audited accounts for the all the spend associated with this campaign? I’d be interested to see how if the “creditors” are stated on the accounts (if at all).
    Have the directors of the company taken any salary or dividends over the period of this project?
    How can delivery dates have been confirmed a few months ago, when it is now apparent that these were never going to happen?
    We also need legal re-assurance about the ownership of the IPR that we have invested in. It should not return to the company, but should be owned by the 2,000 backers who have paid for it.
    The list of questions goes on and on.
    We are, effectively, creditors of the process.
    In order to repay the creditors all available assets associated with this project should be sold to cover the debts. This would include IPR, tooling etc etc.
    If Triggertrap wish to make an offer for these assets, they can do. But they should also be available on the open market for purchase by another technology company etc.
    Triggertrap should do the honourable thing and hand this process over to the finance/legal experts.
    If does not seem correct that the company retains the IPR which we have paid for, and uses if for the long term benefit of their business. Even if they do not market ADA, they will still benefit from the knowledge gained over the period of this project?
    Would Triggertap consider holding the equivalent of a “creditors” meeting, where we or our class legal representatives, can obtain some answers. I would also like a representative of Kickstarter to be present to offer advice.
    I am failure confident that some people will currently be consulting their legal representatives.
    Just because we’ve only lost a few hundred pounds each, doesn’t mean we are insignificant.
    I look forward to reading the views of others.
    Thanks for taking the time to read this

    Ben Appleton on March 3
    http://valleywag.gawker.com/it-just-got-easier-to-sue-failed-kickstarter-campaigns-1637720027

    Ben Appleton on March 3
    send them a direct message and you get a smug reply with a (*slightly differently worded*) ‘PS: check out our site to see other photos photos created with the product we arent going to give you!’

    Boudewijn Drenkelford on March 3
    Creator Handbook – Funding
    Kickstarter uses an all-or-nothing funding model. If your project doesn’t meet its funding goal, no money changes hands. This is great for creators because it minimizes risk. Meeting your goal ensures that you’ll have the funds you need to COMPLETE your PROJECT and DELIVER REWARDS to your backers.
    Your funding goal should be the MINIMUM AMOUNT NEEDED to complete the project and FULFILL rewards. The first step to setting that goal is to estimate a budget.
    If you can’t deliver what you promise, return the money. BTW why does the Triggertrap website still display the Triggertrap ADA, i mean if it’s a project gone wrong why keep it alive? Better come up with a better solution for your backers because we have not waited for 15 months to get 20% of our money back! We waited for Triggertrap ADA!

    Euphoria on March 3
    I want the project to be done and get my reward, or at least get 50-80% of my money back.
    Triggertrap also have to release everything they developed with our money and make it open source! In fact it was developed with our money and we have the right to get what we paid for.

    Norman Beer on March 3
    Where is the evidence that KickStarter said these thing?
    Where is their official statement?

    Norman Beer on March 3
    Why did the bank turn you down?

    Ben Appleton on March 3
    Why not speak to an investor or venture capitalist, get the funds, complete the units, fill your orders then play catch up once you have a completed stock piling instead of f*****g us over like this? Absolute disgrace.

    Euphoria on March 3
    Great got money, invested it to develop the Triggertrap.
    After few months, the device will be sold and they will earn money with our money! And community gets NOTHING out of it…
    I am so sad about this -.-

    Minning Xiang on March 3
    Can UK backers file a chargeback under Section 75?

    Rahim Ikram on March 3
    “Kickstater discovering fraud”

    Norman Beer on March 3
    So I have to ask, why are you hiding who you spoke with? Afraid we will find out that what you were told is different than what you’ve told us?

    Norman Beer on March 3
    Triggertrap says:
    Norman,
    It is not my place to share people’s details, so yes, I am not willing to share who I spoke with. Please contact Kickstarter directly for a clarification from them.
    Best,
    ~Haje

    Haje Jan Kamps
    CEO, Triggertrap

    Creator Triggertrap on March 3
    @Chris – We tend to recommend Camera Axe as the best replacement for Triggertrap Ada (see http://www.cameraaxe.com), but there are other potential options, too.
    Best,
    Team Triggertrap

    Chris Laws on March 3
    Im guessing its ok to talk about MIOPS now because they’re not technically a competitor any more……Im going to buy one when the go on general sale partly funded with the £38 I’m getting back ;-)

    Kevin McAllister on March 3
    I need to find another one to help in some volunteer wildlife research.

    Loren Lewis on March 3
    Haje,
    This is a big last-minute surprise that you had to have seen coming long ago. I stayed with you in spite of losing almost $80 US in international transfer fees on the Seedrs project. Now losing both the dream of the ADA, and most of my investment has soured me on the whole Kickstarter concept, and will likely do great damage to your reputation and your ability to raise funds for new projects in the future. This is a tragedy for all of us. I might have taken the 50% option at the store, but I’m not even sure that will remain viable in the future.

    James on March 3
    @ Kevin McAllister.
    The MIOPS Smart. I would have backed it, but I was already backing Ada. At some point someone talked about it here, and Triggertrap got angry or something. They said they didn’t want people talking about their competitor. I found it a bit mean spirited, especially when they were already delayed at the time.

    steve wood on March 3
    Maybe we can see if Miops will do a groupon purchase for us battle weary Ada veterans? Please, show us mercy!!!!

    Kevin McAllister on March 3
    @James
    What was the competing product that works?

    Duncan Moffat on March 3
    This is pathetic. You raised half a million dollars and you couldn’t create a camera trigger? Why didn’t you figure out how much production was going to cost months ago? Once it became obvious that it was untenable, you should have refunded whatever was left instead of throwing more money at some inept software developers.
    You owe it to us to give us a breakdown of the real costs. How much did you have left and how much does it cost to produce the units? How much would it cost for a production run of say, 500 of the platinum level kits? I am sure some people would be willing to put their refund money plus a little extra cash to get their kits instead of having to fork out $250 for the MIOPS unit.
    Finally,
    I believe that you promised people who backed the higher kits a free triggertrap mobile 2.0. That is something that you can still absolutely fulfill. Maybe that would go some way to appeasing people.

    Thomas Stoll on March 3
    I think most of us are not happy with the solution they offer.
    That will be my last project on kickstarter if this will be the way.
    I backed some project and they had a product at the end, even it wasn’t perfect…. but nothing from a company which should know how to create something is bad … sorry
    I was waiting for a year and didn’t bought another solution, and now that …
    And how many of us have pledged an amount over 100?

    Johan Gude on March 3
    maybe they can make the electronics with some diy kit (o-rings etc) and people can 3d print their own housing and assemble it?
    Still want a product instead of 20% refund.

    James on March 3
    I understood the risk. My main issue is that Triggertrap reacted badly to people talking about their competitor here, saying they didn’t want to give it press.
    The competing product succeeded, and appears to had a much better design in the first place.
    Ever since I saw that, I felt a bit odd being a backer.

    steve wood on March 3
    Confused how Triggertrap seem to differentiate between the “Going concern” of their company, and investing via kickstarter in the same company? Anyone out there with some more business savvy?

    Nam Chau on March 3
    You played around with our money and now you lost it. You can’t just say “Sorry for the fuck up. Here’s what’s left of it.” This is not acceptable. If you have to sell your company piece by piece to pay back the money you owe, then that’s what you have to do. That’s business. You fucked up, not us. Why should we pay for your mistake? This is yet another failed project on Kickstarter that I have backed. This is also the last project that I’ll back on KS too. KS needs to get this shit in order or they’ll continue to loose more backers like me.

    Chris Laws on March 3
    Actually I think this all stinks.
    Happy to hear if anyone is thinking of legal action.

    Paul Brown on March 2
    Fellow backers – How do we take this further? Triggertrap are only sporadically responding to suggestions. They have clearly deceived us. They seem unwilling to do anything but offer meaningless compensation. I would be willing to pay extra to get something (On the understanding Triggertrap make nothing out of it at this stage). I understand there is risk however my pledge was based on what they wrote and manufacturing was something they had a lot of experience in so its a shock to see this as the major hurdle.
    What can we do to a get compensation and also to make sure that Triggertrap do not release a product later down the line using technology they have created from our money?

    Kevin McAllister on March 2
    Are you guaranteeing you will not relaunch a new kickstarter campaign to relaunch this or a similar project to finish this one?

    Joe Reynolds on March 2
    Is there nothing that could be put into production, whether it be just the sensors or just the driving trigger trap console? Surely one of these would be better to have in order to give backers who wanted a sensor driven camera trigger something to build on?
    And is the idea of issuing shares in Triggertrap completely out of the question?

    TimvdO on March 2
    I fail to see how it would take so long to realize the final production costs are going to be too high. You claimed you had quotes from manufacturers from the start and that you were almost ready to get into production. Did you not follow up on these quotes as the project got postponed?
    You made your backers believe the R&D part was practically finished, when in fact it was anything but. That is where the problem lies, because those statements could be seen as fraudulent. I agree Kickstarter is not a store, but you do make a legally binding commitment to your backers when receiving a pledge. You now call it quits, without taking any responsibility for the losses you’ve created.
    Yet another Kickstarter fail.

    Raul Sanchez Jr on March 2
    http://www.diyphotography.net/500k-high-speed-trigger-project-funds-pulls-back-after-a-year-owner-is-taking-responsibility/

    Heinrich on March 2
    Mr Kamps an other staffers replying anonymously simply as “Triggertrap” – do you still have a job – do you still earn a salary? If yes, then your comment “I’m afraid we really are truly unable to offer larger refunds, otherwise we wold be more than willing to” is irrelevant. If you can pay yourself, then you can repay backers/investors.
    You lied and deceived and didn’t follow Kickstarter’s guidelines on communicating concerns and delays in a timely fashion (when you lost your CTO who now seems to be the scapegoat, did you communicate this or take legal action against him/her for the mismanagement and misinformation with suppliers?).
    Now is the time to correct your mistakes by not taking backer money to further mismanage your company – you have an ethical and moral obligation to support all customers, and not see the Kickstarter backers as a write off group to be discarded.

    Sebastian Najnert on March 2
    You needed $50K
    You raised $290K
    You still have left $58K, yet this is enough?
    I think you are calling it quits too early and deciding to throw away our backers money.

    Norman Beer on March 2
    Haje,
    I gave you the benefit of the doubt and tried keeping this convo in PM’s.
    Considering the original TOS is crystal clear when it comes to situations like this, claiming you spoke with a mistery person at KickStarter and they told you to only partially refund, is a BS excuse.
    You were repeatedly asked to provide names and numbers but you refused.
    You are more worried about your house and car than you are about your backers. What would the bank say if you played this game with them?
    One case filed in U.S. court will cost you everything you have. Every employee will be on the street. Remember, any attorney that cracked this can easily file this for essentially nothing out of pocket. You and KickStarter would be forced to disclose everything.mthat alone would end up costing you more then you can imagine.
    Lets see how long before every photography publication reports on this. I can see the headlines now: TriggerTrap thinks they can pull the same tricks as Greece and screw over investors!
    Do the right thing by paying everyone back 100% and hopefully you’re able to avoid bankruptcy. Then hopefully you can build it back and continue on with life. But screw over your backers and photographers and you’ll be permanently labeled.

    Creator Triggertrap on March 2
    Hey guys:
    There’ve been a couple of questions about ‘deleted comments’ or ‘moderated comments’.
    We have a policy of complete honesty, and we’re not moderating or deleting comments. In fact, even if we wanted to, Kickstarter doesn’t give us a delete button (We have a ‘report post as abusive’ type button, but that’s it).
    If your comment isn’t showing up, please check further back in time – there are a lot of new comments turning up at the moment.
    Team Triggertrap

    John Rees on March 2
    It happens in business with any project. I was mentally using my Ada only yesterday so I’m going to leave it as a credit in the store for two reasons: It ain’t over till the fat lady sings, maybe she’ll appear as Aïda in some production or other. Secondly, now is not the time to hit Triggertrap’s cash flow by demanding a refund.
    Good luck, develop something and stop feeling sick – I know the feeling.

    Rahim Ikram on March 2
    £300,000 that’s a lot of money to steal right under people’s noses

    Sebastian Najnert on March 2
    To continue. As other backers have mentioned. You have come so far and got so close to the end and are now throwing our invested money away. I do not see myself or a vast majority of backers building this unit at home. This project needs to be finished.
    How much extra funds would it take to complete my reward? I would rather contribute another 50% more and get something, rather then loose my 80%.

    Simon Ho on March 2
    I don’t understand, after so much delay and update, did you guys ever noticed the cost problem ???? did this cost problem just happen 1 month ago?
    And large amount of the cost goes to firmware development and stuff cost, did the stuff 100% work on this kickstarter project for last one and half year, did you use our money to fund your staff to do your company’s other works?
    I don’t care if Triggertrap would go out of business. I need at least a 80% refund.

    Sabyasachi Patra on March 2
    Looks like comments are moderated? I can’t find my previous comment. I need Full refund. After one and half years they wake up to say that they have spent 80% of our money. Why they didn’t realise it before? Massive Scam. Even the 20% they can give to a charity after one month and but can only refund to backers after three months. After all this is over, they will sell this to someone else and launch in a new name. At that time they will have nothing to do with kickstarter.
    There will be a lawsuit.

    Sebastian Najnert on March 2
    Unbelievable. I feel like we’ve been lied to and dragged along for the ride.
    Your communication to backers always showed progress.
    5 Weeks ago you indicated things progressing along with fine tuning of different components.
    2 month ago you committed to a shipping date.
    At what point did you realise this project was not going to be realistic with funding? You continued to keep the problems hidden and keep spending more of our money working on something you knew was not going to eventuate.
    I do not believe that you’ve suddenly, 2 months prior to shipping, realised there are not enough funds. You’ve spent nearly twice your original goal on staff costs alone!?!

    Eckhart Pedersen on March 2
    I would probably be willing to pay extra (depending on exact amount) to get my kit into production, rather than a receive a meaningless small refund. Is this not possible?

    Rob White on March 2
    Just had an email from “Helena Vieira – Head of Happiness”.
    I hope her salary didn’t come out of the 30% CONtractors and Staff Costs.
    Her jobs prospects have got to be looking dodgy don’t you think

    Ian Bowie on March 2
    Hi notes,
    I see that they will release the code and the pcb design soon. Perhaps this may be enough to build the device.
    The production company that was engaged and recommended changes to the board may be willing to build and sell the board as there seems to be a reasonable market.
    Perhaps it is a waiting game to see what fills the space,

    Ian Bowie on March 2
    Not surprised by the news.
    Perhaps we need to persuade kickstarter that when a project is over funded, that they hold the excess in a fund that is released later in the project lifecycle, Most of the project should have been completed using money in the 1st target. The overfunding would be needed to bring the product into production.
    Given, that this project did not enter production, lots of money should have been in the kitty.
    I guess that the project could have been closed a lot earlier and I think that kickstarter needs to consider putting in some backers into the project board to better provide governance.
    I guess another company will take the open source material and turn it into a viable product. It is a pity that this company will not include any of the current Triggertrap team or perhaps it will.

    noktec on March 2
    Alright, as far as I understand this, there is a community here, and each of us as a different background, what about you proposing different plans for them to lower the costs and us being delivered with something (as close as) close to what we expected ?
    For example :
    1) you could provide DIY kits, for the one of us that like soldering.
    2) you get the reduce the costs for some of us on the “design” changing the nice plastic to something cheaper ?

    etc.
    For this to work we kind of need more ideas, so that triggertrap could actually come up with a plan to satisfy us, as we will probably wont see any money back.

    Creator Triggertrap on March 2
    @Andrew “does that include the extra for shipping I had to provide?”
    All the backer levels were inclusive of shipping; nobody had to pay extra shipping for their products.
    – Team Triggertrap

    Andrew Jagasothy on March 2
    Now that I have lost 80% of my money, does that include the extra for shipping I had to provide?

    Creator Triggertrap on March 2
    Stuart; Thank you for your feedback, and I’m really sorry that you feel like you need to ‘drive us into the ground’.
    Having said that, we’d appreciate it if you wouldn’t re-post your post again and again – you’re preventing other backers’ comments from being seen.
    Thank you,
    Team Triggertrap

    Paul Brown on March 2
    @Triggertrap – Please help us by coming up with more reasonable offers. You know the markup you make on producing a product (As do most other people) so it wouldn’t cost you $350 to make. What is the delta needed to fulfill your original pledge?

    Stuart c wegenka on March 2
    I’m done with Kickstarter. backers please figure out a way to get our money back. What can we do? I’m open to all suggestions and we should drive these guys into the ground!

    Stuart c wegenka on March 2
    I’m done with Kickstarter. backers please figure out a way to get our money back. What can we do? I’m open to all suggestions and we should drive these guys into the ground!

    Stuart c wegenka on March 2
    I’m done with Kickstarter. backers please figure out a way to get our money back. What can we do? I’m open to all suggestions and we should drive these guys into the ground!

    Michael Hudson on March 2
    its just not good enough to repeatedly apologise for not being able to return our money.how on earth can you suddenly realise after you’ve been shelling out to contractors (in London FFS) that you won’t have enough money to manufacture?
    Something stinks here, I take back my earlier comment regarding Hanlon’s razor. You surely can not be that stupid.
    There are some encouraging suggestions in these comments which could provide a way to keep backers happy and still get these made in some form.
    You should at the very least be able to commit to paying us back what we have put in through the business that you continue to run. You are going to need to do something positive because word of mouth of over 1000 people soon ruins a reputation, whatever it is you have left of it

    Eduard Hildebrandt on March 2
    You spend spend more than £230.000? How did you plan to accomplish this project for £50.000? Why did you not stop after spending e.g. only £50.000?

    Rob White on March 2
    Triggertrap, reputable WTF…………

    Rob White on March 2
    I’d still be a big believer too,
    “We’re still a big believer in this platform”………………
    I bet you are, it just made you a shed load of cash for NOT making it.
    Just imagine how much more you could’ve made if you had worked at getting it to market.

    Stuart c wegenka on March 2
    I’m done with Kickstarter. backers please figure out a way to get our money back. What can we do? I’m open to all suggestions and we should drive these guys into the ground!

    Johan Gude on March 2
    In addition to my earlier comment I would like to add that I do not understand im not getting any product while YOU choose to improve Ada over and over. I would have settled for a nice diy kit to experiment with or a product with a less nice waterproof body. I think you should send us a product you can make, even if this means you have to take some losses. You can then sell the product to non-backers too and still make money.

    Michael Hudson on March 2
    “We’re still a big believer in this platform and hope that our open explanation of what has happened will help the community in the future.”
    No shit! You can pretend to know what you’re doing for 15 months on £300k with no consequences – what’s not to love!

    Michael Hudson on March 2
    “We’ll be licking our wounds for a while, for sure, but we’re also taking this opportunity to intensify our focus on what we do better than anyone else”
    watchout people- they’re coming back! They must be the best in the business at separating well meaning punters from their HARD EARNED cash from behind a laptop!

    Rahim Ikram on March 2
    Everybody thought triggertrap was a reputable company that’s why people backed them

    Stuart c wegenka on March 2
    I WANT A FULL REFUND. you guys suck, and you stole my money. Kickstarter is dead to me because of you. How can you honestly think you can get away with stealing my money? You should be ashamed of yourselves. FULL REFUND.

    Stuart c wegenka on March 2
    I WANT A FULL REFUND. you guys suck, and you stole my money. Kickstarter is dead to me because of you. How can you honestly think you can get away with stealing my money? You should be ashamed of yourselves. FULL REFUND.

    Sebastian Kennerknecht on March 2
    Even if you stick with the 20% refund, because you are worried about bankrupting the company, I am not sure if Triggertrap’s reputation can recover from this. A sad day for you and us…

    Philip Kwong on March 2
    I should have backed MIOPS. They are shipping their products now.

    Rob White on March 2
    NEW – STRETCH GOALS! We’ve reached £290,386
    You give us £190 we’ll keep it a while then just give you maybe £38
    ………….Hey I’m in like flynne

    Rahim Ikram on March 2
    Maybe i should get a project funded, and then turn round to say it’s failed and offer 20% refunds, a good way of making money and ripping of innocent people

    Rob White on March 2
    You’ve got to love retrospective sarcasm haven’t you?
    “Ada is an infinitely expandable camera trigger, making high-speed, camera trap, and timelapse photography affordable for everyone.”
    Your words not mine.

    Michael Hudson on March 2
    Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity

    Paul Brown on March 2
    @Triggertrap – Please help us by coming up with more reasonable offers. You know the markup you make on producing a product (As do most other people) so it wouldn’t cost you $350 to make. What is the delta needed to fulfill your original pledge?
    Please read your bit on Risk in the original pledge – You clearly state how experienced you are in the manufacturing area and the only area of concern is quality NOT cost. How did you get that so wrong?

    Rahim Ikram on March 2
    You need to offer more than 20%

    Rob White on March 2
    I love your confidence in human nature.
    “Douglas MacDonald, the store credit won’t expire, so you can also spend this on other products in the future or any cable upgrades you might need if you change camera.”
    Surely he’ll come back for more won’t he?

    Rob White on March 2
    Over a quarter of a million pound spent & nothing to show for it.
    Good management skills.

    Creator Triggertrap on March 2
    Mark, the full amount would have been taken from your pledge when the project closed, so you’ll have the option of 20% back on this pledge.
    Joe Reynolds, I’m afraid we don’t have laser sensors made that we could provide for such a collaboration!
    Heinrich, I’m afraid we really are truly unable to offer larger refunds, otherwise we wold be more than willing to.
    Douglas MacDonald, the store credit won’t expire, so you can also spend this on other products in the future or any cable upgrades you might need if you change camera.

    Rob White on March 2
    “Use this space to cheer the creator along, ask questions, and talk to your fellow backers. Please remember to be respectful and considerate. Thanks!”
    Ironic don’t you think.
    You take 15 months to spend 5.8 times the cost you originally guestimated for the product and we’ve got to be respectful and considerate.

    Sebastian Kennerknecht on March 2
    This is very disappointing. I don’t really want to add to comments that won’t get us anywhere and am very much in the mind set of figuring out some kind of solution to this problem. Your biggest cost according to your pie chart were contractors and staff costs. Since your company is a viable one that sells products besides ADA, how about you reduce staff costs (downsizing!) and subsequently give us a higher percentage back. 20% is rather ridiculous…

    Creator Triggertrap on March 2
    NOTE ON BACKERKIT
    Hi everyone,
    Quite a few of you have mentioned that you’ve added additional money to the project via backerkit.
    Those of you who pledged additional money via Backerkit: Thank you, but please note that this money was never, and will not, be charged, and so you won’t have ‘lost’ these additional funds.
    Best,
    – Team Triggertrap

    Michael Hudson on March 2
    wow not only do you take my money but you remove my comment, presumably because you found it offensive.
    As offensive as having watched you playing with our money for the last 12 months, to be told it’s just not viable for you to return it?

    Isaiah Tanenbaum on March 2
    You have an income stream and constantly brag about how you’re the “number one” ios camera add-on. So pay your backers off in installments. Then we get our money back, and you don’t have to close your factories and find new jobs. Everybody wins, sort-of.
    If you have to pay this “loan” off over the next few years, so be it. I won’t even charge interest because I do truly believe that you were trying your best, even if your best wasn’t good enough.
    I urge you to consider this as a viable path forward.

    Chris Simmons on March 2
    This is definitely a disappointing outcome for all involved. I can understand the anger that some people feel having backed your dream only to not end up with the intended result. Personally this means that I have spent almost $400 NZD for something that I will not receive. I backed this as my first kickstarter because I trusted your previous experience and already own Triggertrap mobile V2.
    Having said that, I am was happy that you spent the time to perfect the design, rather than just giving us Ada version 1 and then refining it and selling Ada V2 next year.
    I was also happy to hear that you will be releasing all of the code and designs on Github.
    I wonder whether it would be possible for you to produce a DIY kit for those of us that are makers, so that we are able to build our own, like how you offered a DIY kit for the original Triggertrap V!?
    Surely this would reduce the manufacturing costs?
    Even if you produced a kit with with only the parts that would be harder for the average person to get for eg. the PCB’s, the plastic shells, the LCD, the laser emitter and sensor, the sound sensor, the PIR, the microcontroller and any other parts that could be more difficult for the average person to obtain. Capacitors and Resistors can be had very cheaply from Ebay.
    I understand that most of the people who have backe this are photographers and do not wish to spend time with a soldering Iron to assemble something of this complexity, but this might go some way to reducing your costs, i don’t care about the fancy packaging a cardboard box will do just fine.

    Douglas MacDonald on March 2
    I also am quite amused by the offer of 50% refund in store credit, with nearly 1000 backers getting £95 what will they spend it on? I had a look and you can buy one of everything on there for £57.97

    Rahim Ikram on March 2
    Refund 100%

    Rahim Ikram on March 2
    Refund 100%

    Rahim Ikram on March 2
    Refund 100%

    Heinrich on March 2
    Triggertrap, you dropped the ball. A 20% refund is not acceptable – you gambled using other people’s money, and lost. Plain and simple. If I borrow money from a bank to fund a business and fail, the bank is not likely going to forgive the loan if you still have viable assets and an income stream – why are you expecting backers to behave otherwise? You’re in breach of the kickstarter terms of service applicable at time of launch – to quote: “A Project Creator is not required to grant a Backer’s request for a refund UNLESS the Project Creator is unable or UNWILLING to fulfill the reward.Project Creators are REQUIRED to fulfill all rewards of their successful fundraising campaigns or refund any Backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill.” Nothing about partial payments – deliver, refund everything, or go bust and let bankruptcy courts distribute assets. Unfortunately this will probably end in a lawsuit, but hoping you’ll reconsider!

    Rahim Ikram on March 2
    Refund 100%

    Rahim Ikram on March 2
    Refund 100%

    Rahim Ikram on March 2
    Refund 100%

    Rahim Ikram on March 2
    Refund 100%

    Rahim Ikram on March 2
    Refund 100%

    Rahim Ikram on March 2
    Refund 100%

    Rahim Ikram on March 2
    Thieving Scum, they are the words I would describe someone if I had £150 stolen from my bank account, And this is no different

    Douglas MacDonald on March 2
    Some people should go back and look at what they originally said about the product, I personally feel lied to as even last month there was no word about failure.
    Here is a couple of quotes from the original campaign
    “We’ve been working on Triggertrap Ada on the sly for a long time now, and we’ve invested a lot of money into it. We’ve gotten it to a point that we’re ready to take it to production.”
    “We are still making revisions and improvements to the electronics and enclosures, with a design freeze planned for the end of the Kickstarter campaign.”
    From Update 22
    “This is it then, we’re getting ready to enter production! Our manufacturers have Ada in their hands and are preparing to tool up”
    And what seems to be the heart of the problem from May last year in update 13
    “he truth is that it we might have been able to stick to our estimated shipping date, but Ada would be nowhere near the awesome bit of camera-triggering kit that we want it to be. We hope you agree and will forgive us the delay; Our thinking – as always – is that we would much rather ship a brilliant product late than a disappointing product on time”
    “We’re not new to this – and having previously taken a project successfully through Kickstarter, we are very aware of the numerous risks and challenges that creators face.”

    Joe Reynolds on March 2
    Thank you for replying to my suggestions regarding providing individual sensors as compensation – would the sensors not be able to be used with other drivers?
    I know you offered to suggest other triggering options to people who emailed… would your laser sensors for instance be compatible with those other options?

    Paul Brown on March 2
    Although as stated earlier, 20% is not fair and as it was a failure on Triggertraps ability to deliver ( Bearing in mind that Kickstarter is a risk but we balance risk and Triggertrap did have previous in this space) I would be prepared to stomp up some more cash if it meant I got something.

    Mark on March 2
    I pledged £190 for the Platinum Kit. How much was actually taken as this was so very long ago? I’m absolutely furious at this “Sudden” announcement and to me seems very dubious in nature that after all this time with even a ship date given you deem the production now impossible!?!? As a company your project management is totally unacceptable. If you had only just made your funding I’d have considered you a huge risk and would have considered dropping my pledge. This is unbelievable, bordering on stupidity that you as a company only now say you’ve failed?! This is a huge financial dent for me in trusting your posts and believing in the safety net that you were hugely over funded. You believed you could do this with £50K, you get £290,386 and only today say you’ve failed!!

    Gerry on March 2
    I agree that asking for 100% doesn’t make any sense. They’ve at least told us where they money went and how much is left. Plenty of other failed kickstarters don’t even offer that much. And they can tell us how much is left and will give that back. Again that’s much more than many other failed kickstarters.
    If there is hope for other alternatives, Joe’s idea, or permanent lifetime discount that was mentioned, I’d be interested in hearing those.

    Rahim Ikram on March 2
    This is daylight robbery, theft, I can’t afford to throw away £150, it’s disgusting that you are offering 20% refund it should be 100%.
    You ruined it for others on kickstater, it’s the last time I use Kickstarter.

    Johan Gude on March 2
    I quote kickstarter:
    “When a project is successfully funded, the creator is responsible for completing the project and fulfilling each reward. Their fundamental obligation to backers is to finish all the work that was promised. Once a creator has done so, they’ve fulfilled their obligation to their backers. At the same time, backers must understand that Kickstarter is not a store. When you back a project, you’re helping to create something new — not ordering something that already exists. There’s a chance something could happen that prevents the creator from being able to finish the project as promised. If a creator is absolutely unable to complete the project and fulfill rewards, they must make every reasonable effort to find another way of bringing the project to a satisfying conclusion for their backers.”
    I don’t think a 20% refund is satisfying and I will not accept it. I really don’t think it is fair to develop a product at our cost and sell it later to others ( I do not beleive you are not selling anything like ADA in the near future). I did not invest in your play time but in a product.
    I think you will have to come up with something better to complete this project. Let me hear what kind of product you can offer or send me a full refund.

    Isaiah Tanenbaum on March 2
    20% is a slap in the face. If you can’t do 100% right now, then do 20% now, and then another round in a few months when you’ve built your cash reserves up.

    Tim Binnion on March 2
    Disappointed, but again too many people come on Kickstarter thinking it’s a store with fully realised products ready to be sold. This is what unfortunately sometimes happens in R&D. I’m sure there are plenty of projects whose creators have taken the cash and disappeared without trace. To the litigiously minded: have fun burning more money with lawyers, I’m sure something in the Kickstarter T&Cs would point out it’s all at your own risk.
    This was a worthwhile read from the CEO: https://medium.com/@Haje/how-a-half-million-dollar-kickstarter-project-can-crash-and-burn-5482d7d33ee1

    John Davidson on March 2
    Disappointed, obviously. However, being a realist I understand that I am investing in a high-risk environment, and not buying a developed, complete product. Full refunds are not applicable or reasonable. If this is what you want, then read the Kickstarter conditions, and don’t bet again.
    However, I an concerned that Triggertrap does not seem to have kept control of the development process. This situation should have been evident a fair while ago.

    Raul Sanchez Jr on March 2
    I’m in on the group lawsuit

    Creator Triggertrap on March 2
    @Paul – we’re amending the site to remove the Ada pages now.
    ~Haje

    Paul Brown on March 2
    Triggertrap – Of course you are still a great believer in Kickstarter. It has just funded over a years worth of wages. We have no idea what you have really done with the money.

    noktec on March 2
    I can see a lot of hate comments, and I agree I am disappointed myself, but lets stop asking for a full refund, because it does not make any sense :)
    Could we please focus on trying to find a solution like Joe, suggesting so create individual sensors, rather than focusing on an impossible full refund.

    Mark Howard on March 2
    Who could believe a pie chart you need to show a full set of accounts to be legal in my country a full refund is needed NOT A PISSY 20%

    Paul Brown on March 2
    PS you are still advertising ADA on your site :-(

    Creator Triggertrap on March 2
    Hi Joe,
    The idea of individual sensors is an interesting one, and something we could look into tying in to our existing products. Thanks for your feedback.
    We’re sorry to hear that this project has affected some of our backers’ view on Kickstarter. We’re still a big believer in this platform and hope that our open explanation of what has happened will help the community in the future.
    Dominik I’m afraid the higher price doesn’t make sense at this stage. If anyone would like to hear suggestions for other triggering solutions please email us at hello@triggertrap.com

    Paul Brown on March 2
    Absolutely unacceptable. You got 6 x the amount you needed so how come you spent 75% of the 600%?
    I will not pay for your ‘play time’ over the last xx months. At no point have you mentioned any issues. The fact you only just realised that manufacturing might be too expensive makes me feel you were doing this as a ‘project’ not as a viable product. You kept saying that you had done this better and that better. Sadly that meant we ended up with no product.
    I want 100% back. No questions. I am with Lukasz Szeflinski, if we need to progress this through the courts I am in. That is said with a very sad heart as Triggertrap ‘seemed’ to be a genuine caring company.

    VHF on March 2
    Failure is a risk with KS projects. What annoys me is the extremely sudden nature of this failure. I cannot accept that you’ve ONLY JUST realised how expensive this has been/will be to make. Failure should have been embraced long ago without ploughing on knowing it was doomed, which has almost certainly happened. Failures often are predictable through updates – this was not.

    Dominik Deobald on March 2
    > If you have paid additional money for add ons
    > via backer kit, you haven’t been charged for that amount.
    Okay, I kinda missed that point. That at least is “good news”.
    Still sad, because I was really waiting to get the Ada into my hands. I really think you should reconsider going for a higher price tag for the final product. I think there are anough photo enthusiasts willing to pay a little more – if it is working.

    Lukasz Szeflinski on March 2
    What about group lawsuit ?!

    Sid on March 2
    I think its ridiculous that the company went of spending all the money and is only left with 20% of the original funds. I am backing projects on Kickstarter cause its a good platform to get the ball rolling. But when this happens its just isn’t acceptable.
    I am not sure which backers you spoke to and what they suggested. I would like to receive my full refund. Please also consider the opinions of other backers not just a select few when making decisions.

    Joe Reynolds on March 2
    I’m bitterly disappointed… To have driven Ada into the ground in such a manner that 80% of funds have been used with NOTHING to show for it is appalling. If you’d produced a product with a little less polish and beauty than you’d previously hoped for then fine – not ideal but something that functions!
    A 20% refund, while understandable based on the 20% remaining funds, is insulting for the year and a half of updates showing your team playing around with functioning prototypes. 50% in store credit is possibly even worse – you no longer sell anything that functions even remotely close to what Ada promised or the original Triggertrap.
    Are there no individual sensors that could be produced, that could be used to tie in with another system? Any sort of physical recompense in this manner would be appreciated more than 20% refunds.
    How about issuing shares? Anything that helps get Ada backers as much value as they entrusted to Triggertrap as possible would surely be worth exploring?

    Creator Triggertrap on March 2
    Hey everyone,
    Thank you for your comments, words of encouragements, and questions. We’ll get back to you on everything as soon as we can.
    We would love to be able to offer full refunds for the full amount, but the nature of this project means that we’ve invested heavily in developing Triggertrap Ada. While we weren’t able to deliver, we did have to pay for the development work that was done to date.
    When we contacted Kickstarter about the situation, they informed us that we should ‘return any remaining funds to backers who have not received their reward’. Given that we have 20% of the Kickstarter funds remaining, that’s the percentage we’re offering as a refund – although, as we mentioned in the e-mail to you, if you prefer, we can offer 50% of the funds backed as credit in the Triggertrap store.
    The reason we’re able to offer a bigger refund in the store than as cash is that obviously we manufacture our own products; to us, a 50% shop credit is about the same as a 20% cash refund, so you’ll be able to make your refund go further.
    If you have paid additional money for add ons via backer kit, you haven’t been charged for that amount.
    Thank you,
    Team Triggertrap

    Spencer Pablo on March 2
    Much of what I funded on backerkit already existed in your inventory. You did not have to develop anything for that. Now you’re telling me that the refund in going to get is less than what I added on backerkit? Unacceptable. Full refund. Nothing less.

    Joe on March 2
    It might be difficult to ask for a FULL refund as this will just kill a great startup with huge potential. However, IMHO refunding the 20% remaining fund and call it even aren’t a fair solution to the backers either. After all, almost £240,000 was used in the development process. Although the final product is not in mass production yet, I assume TriggerTrap would continue to develop the software and/or hardware that had kickstarted with our funds and introduce them to market some day (or already done so) to make a profit, either as an update to the existing products or as something totally new. It is only fair that we can share some benefit of those as well. Maybe asking for an ownership interest in TriggerTrap would be against the Kickstarter policy, but I think an offer of lifetime discount in addition to the partial refund would be the least TriggerTrap could offer as a gesture of sincerity. Just my two cents. Not sure how others would feel.

    Stuart c wegenka on March 2
    I WANT A FULL REFUND. you guys suck, and you stole my money. Kickstarter is dead to me because of you. How can you honestly think you can get away with stealing my money? You should be ashamed of yourselves. FULL REFUND.

    Dominik Deobald on March 2
    What? “Disappointment” does not even describe how I feel right now… I backed you here, added quite some more on Backerkit – and now, after a steady stream of good news in your updates you suddenly go “And, hey… We spent all the money. Good bye!”
    This is killing the Kickstarter idea. I backed a lot of projects, but right now this whole thing feels more like a money burning machine than a real project kickstart engine…

    Jan C.D.Thiermann on March 2
    You gave 25 updates with, at least, a signal leading towards “May is the month of delivery”. And now with update #26 you come up with a message: We failed….
    My dear friends, a FULL refund is the only acceptable proposition you can make now. Nothing less!

    Spencer Pablo on March 2
    Not only did I spend money here, I added more on backerkit. I did not fund your company to save you from bankruptcy. You took away my money and celebrated then finally got to work. This is absolutely unsatisfactory.

    Spencer Pablo on March 2
    A full refund. Nothing less.

    Raul Sanchez Jr on March 2
    I would like a full refund

    steve wood on March 1
    Hi Triggertrap team! So, talk to us about May…..how are we looking as we enter March?

    Creator Triggertrap on February 20
    Stephen, glad she was able to help!
    Rivereau, thanks for the requests! We’ll take that on board for the update

    Rivereau Benoit on February 20
    A few requests for your next update:
    – Update to say if the project is on the revised schedule or not.
    – Update on CE/FCC conformity.
    – More tests (I ‘m looking forward to see your tests with the light sensor during a storm.)
    Thanks

    Stephen Cottle on February 19
    Yes your Superhero of happiness has indeed been in touch and i now have said item on my desk :)

    Creator Triggertrap on February 17
    Thank you one and all for your support! It means a lot to the Triggertrap team.
    Stephen I think our Support Superhero has now replied to you! She’ll be able to help you out :)
    Allan we’ll be getting an update to you in the first week of March. If you have any questions in the mean time just let us know!

    Allan Aylard on February 16
    Is there an update coming soon? Just a quick update to say if the project is on the revised schedule or not.

    Stephen Cottle on February 13
    @Tiggertrap
    Just emailed you about a cable as i now have a D700 but would still like ot keep the original cable i ordered as i will still be using the D90.

    Rudy Coevert on February 12
    I also totaly agree with you tim, I’m a backer of multiple projects.
    one project wich was just 2 months late but not to many update no communications with comments.
    one project 5-6 months late 2- 3 months no communication at all.
    triggertrap 1 year late but constant updates.
    for me the communication is most important to keep faith in the product.
    you communicated all the way long especially the last update(s) where it’s an complete honest self reflection was for me an convincer to keep faith.

    Stephen Cottle on February 11
    Well said Tim can’t agree more

    Tim Roberts on February 9
    I’m sorry but I have to give my 2c worth to those who have “lost faith.” Kickstarter is not a shop – you want a product then go to the main street and buy it. Here you have backed a beta product in the expectation that there will eventually be a marketable product that you will get at a discount. Yes there will inevitably be delays – suck these up ladies and gents and be happy that the updates we have received have been positive and actually given us useful information. Am I frustrated by delays? Yes but I prefer to have the end product as near to perfect as possible than a sub standard device that I will forever regret committing to. Please cut these guys some slack. They have been honest and I for one trust them and their development process. I look forward to having the finished product in my eager hands!

    Creator Triggertrap on February 6
    Hi Minning, thanks for the good luck wishes. Unfortunately the issues we experienced on this Kickstarter project were shiny, new, and took some learning to overcome. This is why we decided to share the issues with you in our last update. Although this doesn’t excuse the delays, I hope it helps to explain them!
    Hi Domenico, so far we haven’t had to add any further delays!

    Domenico Tricarico on February 5
    Hallo! the risk is that, if we collect other delays, when ADA will be ready it will be obsolete and overtaken by competition… ;)

    Minning Xiang on February 4
    It seems that you have learned nothing from traggertrap v1. There was more than one year delay on your first project and it happened exactly the same as this one. Good luck guys.

    Creator Triggertrap on February 3
    Stephen and Craig, it’s sad to hear that you have lost so much faith in Triggertrap due to the Ada delays. We are working to offer backers as much information on why these delays have happened as possible, such as our CEO Haje’s ‘Hardware is Hard’ article: https://medium.com/@Haje/hardware-is-hard-getting-a-kickstarter-project-shipped-59c9596bdd7f
    Hopefully this will help show how we are working to correct issues that caused the delays with this project. Thanks again for your patience one and all.

    Craig Staples on February 2
    I can’t wait to get another delay update around June. I think I have totally lost interest in and desire to use the Ada

    Stephen Bucala on February 1
    I agree with the comment below. It’s going on a year and a half now. All we get are words with updates trying to be humorous. I understand a product needs time but his is ridiculous. You need to compensate your backers for this absurd delay and show some good business practices and offer SOMETHING extra to your backers for sticking with you through all of these delays. Again I understand how these things work but something more than words would a long way with keeping all is backers faith in this product and the company….

    Creator Triggertrap on January 23
    Allan you read our minds. An update has just gone live!

    Allan Aylard on January 19
    It has been a while since the last update. What is the current status? When is production starting?

    Rudy Coevert on January 12
    @ Brayden here haje shows the flash adapter where you can see the difference very good.

    Rudy Coevert on January 10
    @ brayden, If i’m correct you want to connect tt ada to your camera and put the pochet wizard on the hot shoe of your camera to use HSS.
    This will work without a problem, but the total reaction time will be longer.
    your camera needs more time to react to a trigger than a flash.
    in your scenario you first have the camera reaction time and the flash sync on top.
    depending on your subject’s speed this can be to long.
    as long the speed of your subject is not to high this can have extra creative possibilities.

    Brayden Oakley Frost on January 10
    I have a question and I wonder if any one can help me with this I want to know if I can use a the trigger trap product along aside with the pocket wizard ? essentially I want to use the trigger trap to be the trigger and the pocket wizard to perform HSS.

    Sabyasachi Patra on January 8
    Highly disappointing. Every time you send an update with some photos, as if everything is right, when actually your product is no where in sight. Now your delivery date is more than one and half years since this project was funded. You all have slipped badly. How can a update use words like wonderful for a shipping date which is some six months down the line? One update said that “We’ve employed the Brainiest Brains we could find to massively improve the quality of the code and to extract the last, tasty drops of performance…” You always send some photos as if things are going right. Please spare us from such PR nonsense. If possible, please be transparent.

    Creator Triggertrap on January 8
    steve wood, that’s an interesting idea! But we’re not entirely sure which way around would be best for you. You could probably do this with one Ada and the correct settings. There are 3 outputs on Ada which should help, and you can trigger multiple sensors in different ways – so what you’re after might be possible with one kit instead of multiple! It might be best if you email us at hello@triggertrap.com so you can discuss it with our Head of Product :)

    steve wood on January 2
    I have a question, would it be possible to “daisy chain” 2 of the Ada devices? so, I suppose have a camera on one, then wait for the sensors to be triggered on the first, and then trigger the second dependent on the first? Don’t know if the sensor ports would allow that?

    Alykhan Ismail on December 20
    @Triggertrap/ Haje
    Bravo! That last comment contained more details (and passion) than most previous updates.
    Be honest with us, we backed you to share the journey, not just the “double-plus-awesomeness”.
    Keep up with regular communication like that and I am sure that you will have a much happier mob of backers.

    steve wood on December 19
    Rudy. My point exactly. In all honesty I was probably goading a response. And those were the answers I wanted to hear. The nuts and bolts of the problem. Not the fluffy feel good updates.
    @creator. Thanks for the update. I just wanted to check you still had some fire in your belly about this project and sometimes you have to ask the tough questions to get the answers you want. . Fair play for taking the time to respond and giving us the details on the reasons, something we have been looking for.
    Looking forward to receiving my ada kit plus all of the additional backer kit addons in May.
    Steve

    Rudy Coevert on December 19
    @Creator HJ.
    In my opinion your last comment is saying more than most of the updates.
    just like a lot of backers I was disappointed for the new delay. Working myself in a company with a lot of product development I know that a lot can happen in time.

    this post shows me how committed you guys are, but also not walking away from mistakes made during the project.
    so I can’t wait to get my fingers on ada.

    Creator Triggertrap on December 19
    Hi there Steve,
    We do have a huge amount of PM experience across the company – but in my opinion, that’s not the core of the problem. The issue is that we made some pretty bad mistakes early on in this project, and we haven’t communicated with you quickly enough whenever we ran into challenges.
    By far the biggest mistake we’ve made is the choice of company to develop the firmware for Ada for us. We should have picked a different company. We should have created better specs for them so when they started under-delivering, we’d be able to nail them to a wall for it. We should have managed them more closely, we should have tested in-depth earlier, we should have fired them as soon as we realised they weren’t up for the job, and we should have reached out to the Kickstarter community for help earlier. When we asked for advice a while back, we got an enormous amount of advice and practical help in return. But all of these are lessons we’re learning the hardest way possible: With an audience of literally thousands: You, our awesome Kickstarter backers.
    As for being ‘off the hook’ and ‘having bought time’ – I’m sorry you feel that way, but I’d have to disagree. We are absolutely committed to delivering a great product, and we’ll keep fighting to get that to happen. My staff are working their asses off to get this to happen, and we have committed to keep sending out updates every step of the way. Of course, not everyone wants these updates, which is a separate challenge, but we’ve always said that we were going to continue to keep you all up to date, with photos, updates, and lessons we’ve learned along the way.
    Trust me – I know we’ve under-delivered on this project, and I’m very unhappy about that. There’s lots of reasons (Hardware is hard, and we do come across lots of unexpected delays and problems along the process), but no real excuses: We’ve not delivered along the timeline of what we had hoped we’d be able to deliver.
    Having said that: We are delivering on what we were hoping to deliver: This is the most awesome high-speed camera trigger I’ve ever used. I know that’s bitter-sweet to hear – but I’m confident that when we (finally!) ship, it’s going to be double-plus-awesome. And you’re going to be able to use Ada to take awesome photographs.
    TL;DR: We are sorry about the delay but crazy excited about the product. Thank you for your patience.
    ~ Haje

    steve wood on December 19
    @ Triggertrap. Just curious, do any of your team even have any PM experience? Here’s a quick guide if they haven’t:
    http://www.projectsmart.co.uk/project-communications-how-to-keep-your-team-engaged-and-informed.php
    I guess now you’ve set the date and are effectively “Off the hook” for the next 6 months we won’t be hearing any more real updates. In my personal opinion, I don’t think you’ve learned anything about dealing with your backers throughout this project.
    This is my opinion, others may have different views.

    Creator Triggertrap on December 18
    Sorry we missed off the questions about sound and light, Andras! Bouncing a flash won’t change the time the flash is on, so the time of the exposure remains the same. However as you bounce a flash, you do lose some of the intensity, so the exposure is dimmer, but the light would look more diffuse.
    Moving the sound sensor does have quite a large impact – moving it even an inch can really change the delay if you’re photographing something moving at high speed. The time taken for sound to travel 5 foot is around 4.5 milliseconds, but it depends on altitude, temperature and humidity, so we can’t provide exact answers.
    Because of variables, we start each shoot with Ada on a tripod, and the gun in a clamp, and then keep them the same distance apart – this means we don’t introduce any change, so our delays are always constant – we can then change the delay on Ada to suit our target placement.
    I hope that explanation helps to give an idea of the aspects you’ll need to consider for your set up. If you have further questions let us know. It’s good to hear now so we can add the information to tutorials in the new year.

    Creator Triggertrap on December 18
    Andras Freyno, here’s the link! http://www.highspeedflash.com/#!flash-units/c1kgp We used the Micro Flash Ultra.
    lauren elliot, we’re sorry to have ruined the backer experience for you and hope that the next few months on the track to shipping Ada will help to correct the areas where we’re falling short for backers. We would love to hear what you all want to know moving forward so that we can try to include it in future updates.

    lauren elliott on December 18
    I think it just might be time for a bit of transparency – the number of companies that fail to deliver, or miss their marks as often as you have, just gets tiresome, and ruins the experience for backers. If you want to maintain any of the remaining goodwill – find an outside, reputable source and give them complete access to the product and process – let them do an update….

    Andras Frenyo on December 18
    OK, I give up. Can you please repost the link that will reveal what light source you’ve used? Does bouncing a flash cause slow down in the exposure? How about the difference in distance of a sound sensor between, let’s say 1, 3 or 5 feet away from the sound source?

    Creator Triggertrap on December 18
    Andras Frenyo, we haven’t used Vela and seeing as it isn’t available to buy yet, we’re not able to arrange anything with Vela Labs at this stage sadly :/
    We don’t have set up shots for this shoot I’m afraid! But do like the idea of sharing the set up with our backers and will work on something special for the new year.
    Garry Shorter, our apologies for letting you down by announcing the May date. The good news is that the hardware is with the factory so this is a more definite date than what we have been able to provide in the past.

    Garry Shorter on December 17
    Getting a little upset with all the delays. I invested in this and put my confidence in your company, and now you are telling us more delays.. First it was October, then December,
    now May!

    Andras Frenyo on December 17
    You! You are telling me that Matt who worked with you on Triggertrap and with whom you are swapping equipment for your respective (and very much related) Kickstarter projects (he uses your Ada, you his Vela) won’t cut your supporters an early bird special? . . . Just busting your balls ;^) Anyway, will you post pics of the setup? Does bouncing a flash cause slow down in the exposure? How about the difference in distance of a sound sensor between, let’s say 1, 3 or 5 feet away from the sound source?

    Creator Triggertrap on December 17
    John Griggs did you catch the deadline? If not and you need to change the cable drop us a message at hello@triggertrap.com and we’ll hopefully still be able to change things!
    Jeane-Stefane Bergeron and steve wood, thanks for your feedback. We’re sad to hear that the latest update with the shipping date next year has been a disappointment. We wanted to focus on the positive of having a delivery date in sight because we are very conscious of not wanting to disappoint backers after the changes we have made in the past. We realise we’ve let our backers down in the past with the shipping dates but now that Ada is actually with the factory, this date is much firmer than what we have been able to provide in terms of estimates in the past. I can assure you that these production delays haven’t meant the death of the product and that Ada is very much alive, kicking, and on its way to you in the spring.
    Andras Frenyo, See our previous comment for a link :)

    Andras Frenyo on December 17
    You mention you used “two high speed flash units”, faster than a speedlight for your latest series of photos. What exactly did you use? Can you also post pictures of the setups, please?

    steve wood on December 17
    I agree with Jean-Stefane Bergeron. Wholeheartedly support the product, as is demonstrated by my additions in the backerkit.
    Seems a bit sneaky announcing a mahoosive delay the day after the backerkit has closed, and slipping it in under some spangly photos.
    I suppose you could argue that May is still “Spring” as you suggested the product would be shipped in.
    My opinion hasn’t changed. Triggertrap could do well to learn from someone like Peak Designs Capture Clip V2, and their product was just a chunk of metal.
    Yes, they had delays, but all the way through, the backers felt part of the journey, rather than a cash cow. I would challenge Haje Jan Kamps to take a look on Kickstarter at how they handled their backers.
    Just my opinion, and I fully respect that others may have a different view.

    Jean-Stefane Bergeron on December 17
    Pretty disappointing update, but more importantly very disappointing way to deal with another significant delay!
    You will be about one year late!
    In May, you projected delivery in October with one other update saying you had missed an important timeline in October.
    We got another update a couple of updates ago saying you were starting production … But today’s update forecasts (probably cautiously) a May delivery.
    While I appreciate the basic behinds KickStarter (not Amazon, there is risk, etc.) and really appreciate TriggerTrap’s desire to deliver excellence, I’m really quite disappointed in the lack of appreciation for the situation.
    I don’t get a sense of apology in this message or the sense of urgency in getting delivery done. I don’t get a sense that there is a real appreciation that backers have invested a sizeable sum over a year ago that the company is benefiting from while we are waiting patiently.
    After all, these production delays would likely mean the death of the product and maybe even the company in the traditional funding world.
    I get it – it’s one of the real benefits of crowdfunding. And it’s a good thing – it allows exciting and innovative product like Ada to get to market.
    But I’m expecting more!
    More ownership, more accountability, more details on why the project will now deliver instead of announcing a further delay of months in March or April.
    You have a tremendous product but you have had pretty poor project management discipline and a credibility problem … At least with this backer.

    John Griggs on December 14
    I understand that you need to finalize sensor orders, etc. before manufacuring, but is it possible to extend the deadline for changing the cable selection in BackerKit until closer to shipping? It occurs to me that some backers may be getting updated kit for Christmas, birthdays, etc.
    I am currently in this boat – my Triggertrap is intended as a gift for my father, who just received a new camera for his birthday. I am waiting to learn the new make and model, hopefully before the current, Dec. 15th deadline and hopefully without blowing the surprise…

    Creator Triggertrap on December 13
    Kim – Glad you got it to work!
    Andras – I don’t think we are able to get an additional discount on Vela for our backers, I’m afraid, but their Kickstarter campaign is currently open, so this is probably your best chance to get a good deal!
    Keith – We don’t generally offer refunds, but I just searched our support system to find your e-mail and I can’t see it. Could you send us an email on hello@triggertrap.com please, and we’ll explain in more detail.
    Happy weekend all,
    Team Triggertrap

    Keith Clarke on December 13
    I want to cancel my order, I have tried on 3 occasions to contact you but no response. How do I cancel the pledge?

    Andras Frenyo on December 13
    Hey there! Can you guys negotiate a discount for the Vela for your backers?

    Kim Bos on December 13
    Apologies, I may have acted too soon, it seems to work now. Please forget my previous comment.

    Kim Bos on December 13
    Hi Guys, wanted t check my backer kit, but the account does not recognise my email address, eventhough I try to login with the email address I use for Kickstarter.
    Any advise?
    Many thanks!
    Kim

    Creator Triggertrap on December 3
    lauren elliott and Chua Shih Yang, now that the Ada prototypes are with our manufacturers, we should have a narrower delivery time frame very soon! We do apologise for how long it’s taken to get to this stage but should have a much better idea of the delivery date very soon.
    Rudy Coevert, that’s an interesting idea! We’ll have a think on it.
    Stephen Cottle the cables are in the lid under the foam. There isn’t a fifth sensor in there but it may indeed fit with a little moving things around.

    Stephen Cottle on December 2
    @Rudy – that does look fantastic – even better in the orange case.
    Question where have you put the cables etc? and the fifth sensor!! So may have to do some of my own measuring etc and see what i come up with

    Rudy Coevert on December 2
    ADA in the pelican case looks wow. is there maybe a possibility for triggertrap when there is enough demand, to buy them on larger scale so that the backers can have them with a discount.

    Chua Shih Yang on December 1
    Kindly advise a narrower ETD date. I’m moving (across countries) in Feb 2015 and would like to update the address accordingly. I would need to delay the shipment if the delivery schedule gets brought forward at the last minute. Thanks

    lauren elliott on November 29
    I love this thing – and the updates are fun – but really guys, how about just shipping the product!!!!!

    Creator Triggertrap on November 27
    @Stephen Cottle – After hours of measuring, sketching and searching, Rich (Head of Product) has decided to pick up an 1170. If you stack the sensors in pairs, the 1170 will hold a full kit and gives a little bit more space for padding between the sides of the case than 1150 would.
    Keep an eye on our Instagram account, I’m sure he’ll post a photo of the kit in the case as soon as it arrives!

    Stephen Cottle on November 27
    think the 1150 is a good sized case

    Stephen Cottle on November 27
    Great minds and all that jazz… let me know what you Head of productions comes up with in regards to the case

    Creator Triggertrap on November 26
    @Stephen Cottle, our Head of Product is also making Peli plans! Aside from saying you have excellent taste, he also says that the Ada dimensions are as follows:
    Ada is 120mm tall, 70mm wide, and 30mm deep on the “square” section. It’s 40mm deep at the rounded connector section.
    Ada’s Sensors are 70mm tall, 70mm wide, and 30mm deep on the square section, 37mm deep on the rounded section.
    @C.D. and @Rudy Coevert, we will indeed have the manual available when the kits start shipping and a group of videos available around the same time on howto.triggertrap.com. If you have any specific questions that aren’t answered by the online resources, do email us at hello@triggertrap.com and we’ll help get you up and running!

    Rudy Coevert on November 26
    @ C.D. in the last update they already mentioned. that they will make how to’s and a manual.
    If you take a lookl at their site for the how to’s of the dongle you will see that in multiple video’s a lot is explained. so i have confidence that they will do the same with ada.

    C.D. on November 26
    Would Triggertrap consider putting together a guide for backers? A lot of us are probably new to using these types of devices and it would help the learning curve if we had some guidance from the creators. Things like the physical set-ups, what equipment to use, troubleshooting, common mistakes, etc.

    Stephen Cottle on November 23
    What are the dimensions of each of the units – looking at getting a peli case to protect it during transport etc and just want to see what case would be most usefull

    Creator Triggertrap on November 21
    Apologies for our slow reply all! Thank you to Rudy and others for helping out the community with answers.
    @shreds, we’re sorry to hear these unexpected delays combined with the updates have been so frustrating and really appreciate your and all of our backers patience whilst we work on getting you the best product we can. The prototypes are now with the factory and we hope to have more positive updates for you soon!
    @Wolfgang Wrba please follow Rudy’s advice and log in to your BackerKit account. If you’re having trouble logging in do email us at hello@triggertrap.com and we’ll help you out!
    @Keith Clarke I’m afraid that because of the way Kickstarter works we are unable to offer you a refund. However backers are getting a very good deal on the kit they have backed so feel free to sell the kit on once it arrives if you are still unsatisfied. If you would like to discuss this further please do email us at the address above!

    Tim Roberts on November 18
    It’s great to see this project finally coming to fruition! Yes it’s frustrating that there have been delays, but that is the nature of product development. I’d wager in that amongst the “tech” projects at KS, those that are on time are in the minority.
    @ Keith, you must understand that KS is not a shop – you have pledged support for a project and that there will almost inevitably be delays. Hang in there and enjoy the final product.
    Personally I prefer to receive a final product that has been designed with quality as a prime consideration, and one for which extensive and thorough testing has been carried out.

    Stephen Cottle on November 15
    do you see Dragon den asking for money back no they look at a project as see if it is viable to back, but even they can have problems with delays im sure. as Johan says this is kickstarter you sign up to the terms when you pledge.
    I for one would prefer to have a fulling tested and functioning gadget than just a plastic box with something that only half works…..

    Johan Oscarsson on November 15
    @Keith: Here’s the thing about Kickstarter… You don’t place an order, you back a project with funds so that the project might become a reality. When you back a project you need to be aware that there are risks.

    Keith Clarke on November 15
    I want to cancel my order this is taking too long. please refund my money.

    Frode Roxrud Gill on November 12
    Message to those of us that got to see the Ada source-code: I am curious abour your impressions about the code and your plans for when the code is released to the public. Should we, as a community, join effort and make Ada even better? Please contact me at ada@gill-roxrud.dyndns.org

    Rudy Coevert on November 4
    @wolfgang Wrba you need to sign in to your Backerkit account to change it

    Wolfgang Wrba on November 4
    since ada has not been shipped yet and i do have a new camera will it be possible to get the connection cable for that one (sony a7).thx

    Rudy Coevert on November 3
    @shreds, product development is for smaller companies very difficult to estimate time.
    the product development itself until the first test is most of the time accurate but then you will find the bugs. with some major bugs you have to rethink your complete product, especially when you want to make a A graded products. I agree with you when a project is delayed this annoying.
    unlike you I want the news feed to keep me posted, i backed the project instead of getting the products of the shelf when their announced.

    Shreds on November 3
    I have to say that one of the big failings of Kickstarter is that so many projects massively underestimate the time taken to do proper R&D and cope with delays from suppliers and in the manufacturing.
    I don’t mind being a backer if the timescales are reasonably accurate, but they are not, for a variety of reasons. It is also irritating to keep receiving Facebook updates about how amazing the product is from the team or testers.
    I will decide on quality and what it can do when it arrives. In the meantime the time spent on these posts would be better spent getting the product right or chasing the manufacturers. I don’t even read updates any more. I don’t need excuses.
    Until it is in my hand, I will reserve judgement, but am getting increasing irritated by the never ending delays and excuses, which should have been envisaged and made explicit at the outset as part of the business process and Kickstarter pitch.

    Creator Triggertrap on October 21
    Asterix – Weather proofing had to be pushed down the testing list a little due to not having many test units and not wanting to cause irreversible damage before the other testing is done! But it’s on our list :)
    Rudy Coevert – We’ve actually managed to catch up on ourselves a fair amount lately, so it shouldn’t affect that estimate

    Rudy Coevert on October 7
    That you missed the internal deadline of the first of October is this affecting the estimated delivery for the end of the year?

    Asterix on October 6
    Any updates on water / weather proofing and tests you have performed for this? Seems crucial given likely uses outdoors e.g. wildlife photography?

    Creator Triggertrap on October 5
    “What exactly is the problem with Mac that Linux and Windows does not suffer from”
    Basically, it’s a case of drivers, I believe: the hardware agency had to create their own bootloader for the chip they chose, but the software they are using to upload new software to the chip only runs on Windows. I think we have found a solution, but it isn’t as smooth as we had hoped, and we’re continuing the hunt for alternative options.

    Frode Roxrud Gill on October 4
    Did you solve the problem regarding firmware updates for Mac users? From the survey, 39.8% uses Mac and 17.5% will upgrade the software.. (Will the enclosures be possible to open up, and might a ST-Link V2 or similiar be a short-term “fix” for Mac users? What exactly is the problem with Mac that Linux and Windows does not suffer from?)

    kokobin on October 4
    At this rate
    6 more months.
    Give them.

    Tien Linton on October 1
    @Eric Bolden
    i backed the brydge keyboard for ipad, which faced numerous delays, a hinge redesign, and seemingly endless complaints about delays in delivery. in the end they turned out a product that far exceeded my expectations.
    so, while i agree that this is taking a while, especially considering how quickly things seemed to be going early on, i have confidence that the end result will be worth the wait..
    however, it would be nice to be kept up to date regarding the development process, as that often calms concerns

    Creator Triggertrap on October 1
    Hello all! We’re sorry that we haven’t been able to get another update to you since the start of the month. Next update will be with you all as soon as we can.
    To all of those who are concerned about the additional delays we unfortunately have had to add to make sure the software and certain other elements of Ada is up to scratch, we do apologise for the inconvenience this has caused and can confirm that the shipping estimate in update #16 is still the latest and most correct info we can offer.
    Allan, as for doing anything hacky with Ada, this will still very much be an option! We basically realised that we had to make certain changes that had a knock on effect, hence why this stage has taken us so long. However Ada will still be open source and shouldn’t be any more difficult to code for than originally planned.
    J Wang, I’m afraid we are unable to offer refunds. Stephen and Johan are right that this isn’t possible through Kickstarter. If you’d like to look at other options then please do get in touch with the team at hello@triggertrap.com and we’ll see how we can help!

    Stephen Cottle on October 1
    doesn’t that defeat the object of kickstarter if people ask for refunds? Kickstarter is about helping out new projects get of the ground and in turn get said project at a cut down price.
    I would rather have a good – no fantastic item – than one that only just works. Im also sure it also in the terms of kickstarter about refunds!!

    Johan Oscarsson on September 30
    @J Wang: Well, in a comment for update #16 they state you can’t get a refund.
    https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/triggertrap/triggertrap-redsnap-modular-camera-trigger/posts/967727…
    Contact them, it’s probably better than writing in a comment: hello@triggertrap.com
    Personally I feel that Triggertrap have been good at communicating how the project is going and I knew when I pledged my money that there might be severe delays. That’s how this works… It’s better to wait a little extra for a quality product.

    J Wang on September 30
    How do I arrange for a refund?

    Raul Sanchez Jr on September 29
    Any updates anytime soon?

    Allan Aylard on September 29
    I was hoping to do some app development on the Ada once it is shipped (e.g. water drop control), but with the problems your professional developers are having, is there any possibility that someone not fully knowledgeable with the early development will be able to develop anything usable?

    Eric Bolden on September 27
    Man I can understand a couple month delay but 1/2 a year, possibly more? are we looking at another year before this is actually built?

    Allan Aylard on September 26
    About time for a quick progress report.

    Creator Triggertrap on September 24
    Yes, what @Stephen said! Thanks guys!

    Stephen Cottle on September 18
    Joe you need to sign in to your Backerkit account to change it

    Joe Reynolds on September 18
    Hi, I know it’s probably been asked plenty of times before, but how do I change the camera cable that I selected to come with my kit?

    Gustav Lindqvist on September 11, 2014
    Do you have any insight whether the feature to upload a program through the smartphone app to the Ada and then be able to disconnect the phone be available?
    If you can only use the phone if it keeps being plugged in it is no better than just using the mobile dongle.

    Creator Triggertrap on September 8, 2014
    @Rudy; Not out of the box, but you would be able to add features like that in source code!

    Rudy Coevert on September 5, 2014
    I never asked before but will there be a complete manual timing on the output of ada.
    first for the drop photography I want to use it for, but I see more options like slow strobe effect for movements etc.

    Creator Triggertrap on September 3, 2014
    Frode, we’ve done a backers-only update with the stats: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/triggertrap/triggertrap-redsnap-modular-camera-trigger/posts/972403

    Creator Triggertrap on September 2, 2014
    Good question, Frode, I’ll share some of the data with you guys imminently!

    Frode Roxrud Gill on September 1, 2014
    Not sure exactly what @Rivereau is asking about (personally, I think the sound sensor has got a lot of attention), but Triggertrap team: Do you see any interesting and/or unexpected trends in the recent survey? Both regarding preferred sensor types and in general.

    Rivereau Benoit on August 30, 2014
    You often speak of the laser sensor, but what about the other sensors? (I would mainly test on the light sensor )

    Creator Triggertrap on August 30, 2014
    Hi there Minning!
    A lot of people prefer to have the parts put together and tested ahead of receiving them. It’s also designed to be sold alongside our Mobile products, and it tends to be easier to get it all in the same package. Of course, if you’ve already purchased these parts separately, you don’t need to order it again – it’s just us making it easier for our customers!
    All the best,
    Team Triggertrap

    Minning Xiang on August 30, 2014
    Oh, a triggertrip phonetrap costs 11.99 pounds (kickstarter special price).
    See here:
    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Smart-Mobile-Cell-Phone-Tripod-Holder-Clip-Fits-Apple-Samsung-Nokia-HTC-LG-/131100561656
    and
    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pro-1-4-Inch-20-Hot-Shoe-Tripod-Mount-Screw-Adapter-for-SLR-Camera-Flash-Hotshoe-/370819524324
    All together costs less than 5 pounds including shipping!

    Creator Triggertrap on August 29, 2014
    @Craig – I’m afraid the dongle is only included in the Platinum and Top Level kits. Also, because of the delays, we simply don’t have enough of the version 2 dongles left in stock to supply those. It would be silly to manufacture an old product, and so the only thing that makes sense to give people who would have received a version 2 dongle a version 3 dongle instead.
    @Frode – We were planning to release the source code alongside the product shipping, but releasing it early is a pretty cool idea. We’ll give it some thought, and announce it here if we do decide to release it earlier!

    Frode Roxrud Gill on August 29, 2014
    Will the github repository be made available prior to the Ada release? I would be more than happy to do a code review! (I guess the software update issues on Mac also means there are issues on *BSD, but it works for Linux, right?)

    Craig Staples on August 29, 2014
    According to the latest update, not only is there another delay (that’s ok, deliver us a great product), but the platinum level and up get another upgrade and the rest of us still get the original dongle not even version 2.
    NOT COOL

    Darren Ingram on August 29, 2014
    Update from KS/Triggertrap falls into inbox: Hurrah!
    Reads update: Oh.
    But I am cool. I’d rather wait and you get a really, REALLY great product out to market. You’ve already showed you can deliver products (unlike some KS scammers) so I’m not worried. Or you are playing a very long game and all those pictures and updates are posted from your Caribbean hideaway, cocktail in hand.
    So keep plugging away. Of course we’d want our toys as soon as possible, but I think I speak for most, if not all, of us by noting that we’d rather get a super-dooper rocket rather than a limp, damp squib.
    A few more updates wouldn’t hurt, perhaps, for some, even if it is a “No real news to report, but we are still living”. Just don’t tease with lots of pictures of the toys in action !
    Best wishes! Darren

    Rudy Coevert on August 27, 2014
    earlier this year there were questions for a solenoid on ada.
    on the triggertrap forum I placed some pictures how to do this http://forum.triggertrap.com/discussion/418/solenoid-on-triggertrap-ada#latest
    this weekend I will make an update (I got an new solenoid and did some testing)
    So one test remains the one with ada

    Creator Triggertrap on August 26, 2014
    Hey Daniel!
    We’re planning to do another backer update this week!

    Daniel Sabourin on August 26, 2014
    Hello Team Trigger Trap how about an update/progress report on the delivery of our Ada’s ?

    kokobin on August 9, 2014
    Of course, as a project creator, I can’t pretend that some of the feedback is difficult to process
    ————————————
    Obviously you meant to type:
    Of course, as a project creator, I can’t pretend that some of the feedback is NOT difficult to process

    Creator Triggertrap on August 5, 2014
    Oh dear, that one went out a bit too quickly.
    What I meant to say:
    Thank you for your feedback, everybody.
    One of the reasons why running a Kickstarter is such an exhilarating (and daunting) experience is that the backers get passionate about the projects, and about every aspect of how things are done. I’ve backed dozens of projects myself, and I know very well how invested and involved I get in projects I’ve helped turn into reality.
    There’s no other platform in the world where you get such an incredible level of in-depth feedback, so early on in the lifecycle of a product. Of course, as a project creator, I can’t pretend that some of the feedback is difficult to process. That isn’t because we don’t care – it’s exactly the opposite: we’re so passionate and personally invested in the products we are trying to bring to market.
    To put it this way: When you are unhappy, we are miserable. If you are disappointed, we are heart-wrought. If you feel mistreated, it’s absolutely our failing, and nobody else’s, and trust us when we say that we take it very – perhaps too – personally.
    We promise that we’ll do everything in our power to make Triggertrap Ada the most awesomest camera trigger in the world. You’ve already trusted us enough to give us your money to accomplish that, and all we ask is that we can humbly request that you trust us for a little while longer.
    My team will do better.
    I will do better.
    Together with you, we’re creating an awesome new generation of photography tools, and we couldn’t have done it without you. Thank you for your support.
    Haje Jan Kamps
    CEO

    Creator Triggertrap on August 5, 2014
    Thank you for your feedback, everybody.

    kokobin on August 2, 2014
    By all means, blog, tweet, and post reviews whenever and wherever you like, but we’d rather not have people give publicity to lesser known competitors on our own Kickstarter page.
    ———————————–
    Publicity?
    Lesser known competitors?
    All you had to do was grin and bear it – and deny the oxygen of publicity to any comments about “lesser known competitors”.
    By kicking off a dismissive slight via your own direct comments, you have drawn more interest into a non-story.

    VHF on August 2, 2014
    Have to agree with pascal. Kickstarter is NOT a pre-order store. We shouldn’t be backing projects and setting our hearts on an EDD. By the very definition of what kickstarter is, there will be unexpected delays, sometimes unexpected shortcuts. I’ve backed some projects which are on track, some which are delayed, and some which are ahead of schedule. The only thing we should expect is the product when it is ready. If we are not willing to do that, we should not be backing on kickstarter, but ordering it once it is ready for public release.

    Eckhart Pedersen on August 2, 2014
    @Johan:
    I must have missed the part about shipping in june, but even then the october shpping update came on the last day in may, so that gave us one day advance warning. Not exactly a lot.
    @Pascal:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_herring#Logical_fallacy
    I am not complaining about the delay itself (as annoying as it is), I am complaining about the lack of communication. This really could have been handled better.

    steve wood on August 2, 2014
    I’ve just taken a look at the other product mentioned. Unless I’m reading it wrong, any upgrades will be controlled by them.
    In my personal opinion, it’s horses for courses.
    I like the fact that the Ada design is modular, multiple sensors which can be placed remotely, and it seems we will have the source code to do with it what we wish.
    I don’t pretend to be a code monkey, but I’m hoping the TT and arduino forums will let people share ideas and code tweaks to get the best out of the kit. After all, you lot seem pretty switched on,
    I have ordered a second Ada through backerkit for just this reason.
    I would have loved to have received this earlier, and moaned in the comments, but it is what it is, my money is invested (Although I know I could still pull out of the backerkit additions for the time being), and I’m just looking forward to getting the kit to see what it, and I, can do.

    Johan Oscarsson on August 2, 2014
    @Eckhart
    Actually, update 11 stated that they were expecting to ship in June, up to an entire month after the original date. If you think about it, that means they gave us the information about shipping in October a whole month before expected shipping…

    Pascal Kreil on August 2, 2014
    @Eckhart we’re on Kickstarter. Please see https://www.kickstarter.com/trust – sometimes projects take longer than expected. If you’re asking for on-time-delivery this is the wrong platform and it’s better to wait until the finished product hits the stores.
    I think it’s much better to wait for a product that is ready than receiving a somewhat finished product that nobody will be happy with (including the creators).
    Haje wrote, that they did know that there will be a delay but they had to figure out how long it will be. After that, they sent an update with updated delivery dates. Are these new dates fix? I don’t know – it’s Kickstarter.
    There’s nothing shameful here – Kickstarter is *not* a store. There are some risks – for both sides.

    Eckhart Pedersen on August 1, 2014
    @Pascal
    Update 7 in december claims everything is on track for a may release.
    Update 11 in april (one month before shipping) says there is a slight delay, “but nothing particularly worrying so far.”
    Update 12 from april 24 does not indicate anything else – only a single week from may.
    After this everyone at triggertrap keeps quiet, there is a complete communications blackout, and then finally update 13 (at the very END of may) finally spills the beans.
    Haje already admitted to knowing about the delay long before may, and yet they wait until the very end of the month? And you defend this shameful act? I am no longer a happy customer, definitely not.

    Pascal Kreil on August 1, 2014
    @Eckhart please check the updates again. They made a very early statement that they won’t deliver on time. And they said that they can’t tell how long it will take. After they had a new timeframe they gave an update. The one you’re referring to. But ignoring all the other updates is very selective and negative.

    Eckhart Pedersen on August 1, 2014
    I have to say that I am disappointed by how you communicate with your fans and customers. I am still extremely irked by the fact that you chose to wait with announcing the delay until the last minute, no matter how much you would like us to believe otherwise, that was extremely poor style.
    And the mentioning of miops and other alternatives – you had a chance to be awesome and cool about it, but instead you went the other way – not cool at all.
    I am not saying this to make you feel up, I am saying this in the hope that you will learn from it.

    Creator Triggertrap on July 31, 2014
    Hi everyone!
    Sorry we haven’t replied to the recent comments quickly enough; we’ve been in the middle of a pretty intense period of launching the Triggertrap How To site (http://howto.triggertrap.com), which is going to include a comprehensive set of tutorials for Triggertrap Ada as well. All pretty exciting!
    To reply to recent comments: We’re not worried about competitors; it’s possible that for some photographers, in some situations, products made by other companies could be a better better match than ours.
    Of course everyone is welcome to make their own choices for which camera equipment they choose to use, we warmly welcome a spot of competition, and encourage fair side-by-side reviews.
    By all means, blog, tweet, and post reviews whenever and wherever you like, but we’d rather not have people give publicity to lesser known competitors on our own Kickstarter page.
    All the best,
    Haje Jan Kamps
    CEO, Triggertrap

    Andreas on July 30, 2014
    is there any reason that triggertrap is so worried about ian linking miops here? should we worry? is it so much better? :/ sorry triggertrap, but getting at a backer because he asks a question and points out that another product does what he asks is very disturbing. it’s not like he advertised the product. but instead of giving arguments why triggertrap is better, you react like a scared dog: bite.

    kokobin on July 28, 2014
    (We have to admit though, posting another company’s competing product’s Kickstarter page to our wall is slightly poor taste, don’t you think?)
    —————————————–
    No. it is not.
    This is a democracy where money TALKS. Comparing products and their various cons and pros is a vital service to backers being educated about the wisdom of their pledges and the wider Kickstarter community sitting on the fence.
    Besides, competition is vital to a healthy free market.
    Triggertrap should be honoured to have others mention and compare other brands with its offering.
    I am backing MIOPS, as are about 1,000 others (and counting). Once I get my hands on both products, I would be posting about my results.
    Comparisons are not going to stop, irrespective of your feelings about the matter.

    Tim Roberts on July 27, 2014
    @ Ian
    yes, those of us that browse KS will have seen the competitor. Perhaps you should back them instead of/as well so that you can be sure you get “the best” device – really man there is no point in comparing another project here in the comments…. bad form and completely un-necessary. If you don’t like triggertrap, well sorry buddy you’ve already pledged, so just suck it up.

    Rudy Coevert on July 24, 2014
    The new moulds look awesome with the sensor logos in the mould.
    http://photos-c.ak.instagram.com/hphotos-ak-xpa1/927362_662042977217514_454676419_n.jpg

    Creator Triggertrap on July 18, 2014
    Ian Tseng: We do have stuff in the pipeline, watch this space! (We have to admit though, posting another company’s competing product’s Kickstarter page to our wall is slightly poor taste, don’t you think?)

    Pascal Kreil on July 16, 2014
    @Ian: you can connect an iPhone with Triggertrap to Ada and use it. There’s no Bluetooth.
    Can’t say much about Nero. V1 was an ultra cheap build piece of plastic with tons of annoying bugs. I have no experiences with V2 but it’s still not more than the Triggertrap V1 was.

    Ian Tseng on July 16, 2014
    I know you guys mentioned being able to interface with the Triggertrap app at some point. Any insight into how this will be done? Does the Ada include Bluetooth? If so, it would really be the be all end all of camera triggers. These guys have something that looks promising. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/nerotrigger/miops-smartphone-controllable-high-speed-camera-tr

    kokobin on July 14, 2014
    I dream of a photography trip to Scotland,
    getting to know the wildlife and being bitten to bits by midges.
    If and when Triggertrap delivers this century.

    Creator Triggertrap on July 14, 2014
    @Rudy – Hahaha, well yes – If you remember the original backer video, I did spectacularly cut myself in that one, too, when we smashed the bottle. Not pretty, eh?! ~ Haje

    Rudy Coevert on July 13, 2014
    @creator wow fantastic results from ada.
    @haje instead of offering your body for science you offer your body for testing ada, next time you don’t have to go that far :).
    I can’t wait to make this kind of pictures myself

    Rudy Coevert on July 4, 2014
    Hi any new updates from tom from testing? I think all of us want to see ada in action. :)

    Pascal Kreil on June 26, 2014
    Backers can follow @triggertrap on twitter. You’ll find some bits of information there ;-)

    Rudy Coevert on June 26, 2014
    The new GUI shows absolutly that you listen to your backers. we asked if it was usable in all lichting conditions. what i can see from the pictures makes me happy. more clear than this is difficult.
    keep up the good work and patiently waiting for October :)

    Tim Roberts on June 18, 2014
    @ Julian, Well you are in the wrong marketplace. If you cant wait for a KS product then you should not pledge. The developers have been giving us regular information. If you don’t like the wait, then I suggest you “shop” somewhere else.

    Rudy Coevert on June 18, 2014
    @julian Watt, If I look at nero trigger product presentation it is in my opinion comparable with triggertrap v1 all in on device not a modular system. most important off course is specs but from the nero I can’t find the specs and ada is still in test phase before the release off specs.

    Julian Watt on June 18, 2014
    Given the extended delay. How is the Triggertrap going to be better than the already available and much cheaper Nero? I’m kind of sick of waiting.

    Rudy Coevert on June 17, 2014
    @creator are there any test results yet?

    Creator Triggertrap on June 13, 2014
    Hey everyone!
    I just wanted to address one particular point in this discussion:
    Brian: “I am pretty sure they did not at the end May and say ‘Hmm, since nothing is ready I guess we will not be able to ship next month'”
    That is of course completely correct, we knew for a while that there was going to be a delay, so we made finding out *how much* of a delay there was going to be a top priority. The reason for this is as follows: We have to choose between making the announcement “We are going to be late but we don’t know by how much” and “We are going to be late, and we think the new shipping date is X”.
    In my experience, it’s much better to be able to give the full information and a new shipping date, rather than only being able to tell part of the story.
    I’m sorry you feel like we have misled you; the only thing I can say 100% for certain, is that delivering a hardware project is incredibly difficult; there’s a lot of moving parts, and a lot of information that cannot be fully obtained until we have information that comes before it. The shipping date is at the far end of a very complicated Gantt chart – and sometimes we do get blindsided by delays in one part of the process, that filters down and impacts the shipping date in unexpected ways. I’m afraid there’s not a lot I can do about that – other than what we did: Gather as much info as we can, and share it alongside a revised shipping date.
    To everyone else: Thank you for believing in us and for continuing to support our efforts. Triggertrap Ada is going to completely revolutionise high speed photography, and you’re going to be the first people to experience it.
    All the best and have a great weekend,
    Haje Jan Kamps
    CEO

    Tim Roberts on June 13, 2014
    Brian,
    I think that you have the wrong end of the stick – so to speak. Crowd-funding is not about accepting the words of the developer and then being disappointed when they don’t meet that expectation.
    No promises are made, but an expected timeline is given to backers, always with the caveat that stuff happens.
    I see no reason to expect that my pledge has been lost/mis-spent/wasted with this project. They have kept us informed about delays, and yes I dislike the delays as much as you do.
    KS and other similar sites give no guarantee of delivery times and nor should they. The developers give “expected” delivery times and we as backers should realise that these times are indeed very flexible.
    I see no problem with the integrity of this company. They have explained the problems and how they are working around those problems. In addition they have had an online presence for a few years.
    Really Brian, you are in the wrong marketplace. Perhaps you should just wait until the product is ready to purchase off-the-shelf. Then you will know what you are buying and what it will do for you.
    In this environment you have to have some trust in the developer and expect that there will almost inevitably be delays. If you cannot face that, then the solution is easy – don’t pledge and wait ’till you can buy it online or in a shop.

    Brian Walton on June 13, 2014
    To those that think a persons word should mean nothing, your part of the problem in society for making excuses for people all the time and not expecting someone to keep to what they say. I never said that I regretted my backing, just disappointed and no I would never recommend them to someone else for a backing, depending on the product when it finally arrives I may recommend buying what they already have available but trust in their ability to estimate, nope not any good. I just hope their claims at the product are better guessed than their ability to guess their time frames.
    Now to those that mentioned they mentioned a delay for a month in April, yes they did but then when that time comes up they then delay again for 4 more months. Their ability to be honest in a fair time frame is a big thing in question. I am pretty sure they did not at the end May and say “Hmm, since nothing is ready I guess we will not be able to ship next month”, no they knew well in advance that it was not shipping in June but waited until the last possible moment to tell us without hitting the shipping month.
    Integrity is part of a companies reputation and theirs no matter how good the product has fallen below what some people (me included) find acceptable. They are not forth right and informative in the situations but elusive and procrastinating.
    I do hope the product is good, that is what I paid for and want but I also want a company that stands behind its word and has integrity.
    You can make excuses and try to take blame off them but that will never give them back the integrity of standing behind their word. I did not do this thinking they were a 12 year old in their parents garage but an actual company that honors its commitments. Also a great product that finally comes out after a better product hits the market and is better is not really a better product, this is always a possibility, may or may not happen. So yes timing is always a possible factor.
    Just my opinion and not expecting anyone to agree or disagree with me.

    Johan Oscarsson on June 12, 2014
    To various people: They did mention in update 11 (April 4) that they were running behind schedule and was (back then) hoping to ship sometime in June. That they now have decided on a later shipping date and the reasons behind this makes me sure that my money is safe and that I’ll get a great product in the end.

    Frode Roxrud Gill on June 10, 2014
    Personally, I do not mind delays at all, but I would like to be informed about them. With the absence of the promised pre-release tutorials I was not surprised about the delay message, but that also means Triggertrap knew about the delay quite a while before posting. Could any changes in the shipping date, positive or negative, be posted here as soon as possible? Also, any information, pictures, gossip, fun-fact, whatever, is very welcome here. Please?

    George Priller on June 9, 2014
    Disappointed as others are at the shipping delay but I do want the end product to be right. It would be nice if you could ship the mobile dongle part of the kit as compensation for the delay as I would love to be able to use the app, but I realize this would be an additional expense as well.

    Pascal Kreil on June 9, 2014
    Calm down Brian. Take a deep breath and read the backer updates again. You’ll find a lot of information given by Triggertrap regarding delays, what causes the delays and what they tried to make things better. The fact that they won’t ship it in time is not new. New is that the now have a new date.
    I don’t know any of the Triggertrap guys in person, but I think this is one of the KS projects with the far lowest risk for your money.

    Tim Roberts on June 8, 2014
    The updates have been clear. The delays have been explained. If you do not have some trust in the developer then you should not be using KS or any other crowdfunding site. You are not buying from a shop, you are not back-ordering a product. You are helping get a project off the ground. There is always the risk that you have lost your money, but given the past reputation of this company, in my opinion that is not very likely. If you do not like the risk, then it’s simple – don’t pledge!

    Brian Walton on June 8, 2014
    And waiting until the ship date to let us know of the major delay, almost half a year for what we paid for and expected in a reasonable time frame is not expecting too much. I understand there are delays and issues that arise but common sense does not say that the end of the original ship time you realize that it is not going out in time (unless we made a monumental error in trusting you with our money) and figure we need to know. I watched the original triggertrap kickstarted (my brother was part of that) and figured you might have learned something, but I guess you learned nothing which in itself means no one should out their hard earned money out for you in the future if your not able to meet your estimates (remember YOU gave the time estimates not us). This is providing to be a sadly disappointing venture and makes it hard to ever in good conscience tell someone to trust you in the future.

    tim wong on June 4, 2014
    Shipping us the mobile dongles (since it’s just the old stock and not the new updated version) would tide us over until October

    Stephen Cottle on June 1, 2014
    Hope the wait is worth it

    Stephen Bucala on May 31, 2014
    I wish you guys would really compensate some how for such a long delay……I understand that testing is crucial, but it is not responsible on your part to set dates when you know that there is so much more testing to do which inherently says it’s not ready or ready to set any sort of promised date. Im still very much looking forward to Ada and am excited to use it, but have to now find an alternative until then.

    Tim Roberts on May 31, 2014
    @ Maurice. I’m in complete agreement with you, despite being disappointed. I’d hate even more to be disappointed by the end product!

    Maurice Uijlenbroek on May 31, 2014
    @creator Thank you for the update. I agree with you rather having an awesome product than a product that is so-so. We all just have to be patient, how difficult that can be sometimes.
    Keep up the good work and make Ada brilliant!

    Minning Xiang on May 29, 2014
    great

    Creator Triggertrap on May 29, 2014
    There will, Stephen! Coming out tomorrow!

    Stephen Cottle on May 28, 2014
    there will be an update this week

    steve wood on May 24, 2014
    Just reviewing the stretch goals..Are the “High visibility markings” phosphorescent? Or how are they high visibility?
    Also keen for an update. Now we’re closer to the start of the “Shipping in June” date, it would be nice to know how things are progressing, as would the backerkit lockdown date.

    Stephen Cottle on May 23, 2014
    Nearing the end of May. So not much longer to go.
    is there an update to the release date?

    Johan Oscarsson on May 22, 2014
    @Stephen – It’s only included if you’re a backer at the “Platinum” or “Top Backer” levels (£150 or £190).

    Stephen Furey on May 21, 2014
    i’m confused about the mobile dongle, when I backed this project I bought a dongle and flash adapter, mainly because of this project and allow experimentation, now it seems one is also being included in the Kickstarter packs plus its the older one so I would have two! Why advertise a discount at the start to promote Triggertrap sales only to include it anyway?

    Stein Onshus on May 20, 2014
    We are getting close to shipping I hope. Look forward to get the stuff soon now! How is testing going?

    Johan Gude on May 19, 2014
    Why shipping the current D2 mobile dongle when you are behind schedule? I guess you are not making them anymore and you are selling them with a discount. You have that many in stock or reserved them already for the kickstarter project backers? In that case I don;t mind u selling them :P

    Minning Xiang on May 15, 2014
    @Creator – A upgrade program sounds good.

    kokobin on May 14, 2014
    And any news about the TC-R8 connector?
    I would like to upgrade my pledge to include both connectors.

    Creator Triggertrap on May 14, 2014
    Hi all! So first up, lots of questions about how the new mobile dongle affects the kits you will receive. Rivereau Benoit is correct. We will be shipping the current D2 mobile dongle with the Kickstarter kits because this is the version that was available when we ran the Kickstarter campaign. We’re considering an upgrade program for the future however.
    Minning: Probably as soon as we have the final shipping date :)
    Rudy Coevert, we are planning on testing extremes as a part of having accurate specs for you all. And also because we want to see what Ada is capable of ourselves!
    kokobin you’re in luck: the Fuji Finepix S1 will be supported by our shiny new R9 cable which will be made available before Ada ships.

    Rivereau Benoit on May 13, 2014
    They said this to the new dongle: “it’ll be the D2 because that’s the hardware that was available at the time :) we’re considering a backer update option though”

    Bo Bickley on May 11, 2014
    Add me to the donlge question too. Got the original, would love the new one. We’re getting al this great new stuff soon, might as well have the whole enchelada right?

    Ken Hillblom on May 10, 2014
    My question too, new or older dongle ?

    Spencer Pablo on May 10, 2014
    So…third generation dongle, eh?

    Minning Xiang on May 10, 2014
    Will we get the new mobile dongle or the old one? Thanks

    kokobin on May 5, 2014
    Any chance the new Fuji FinePix S1 is supported?

    Rudy Coevert on April 29, 2014
    What I want to see tested with ada: looking for the extremes.
    as mentioned by hajee before using firearms with the laser, the minimum and max sound to activate the trigger, the distance that can be achieved with the PIR.

    Minning Xiang on April 28, 2014
    When will we get the “big update”? Thanks.

    Creator Triggertrap on April 25, 2014
    Hey Darren! As we mentioned in our Backer Update #11:
    “We’ve had a couple of curveballs along the way, but nothing particularly worrying so far. One of the things we’ve had to do, is that we needed change from one microprocessor to another (it turned out that our first microprocessor didn’t have enough RAM, and when we swapped it, we had to do some electronics work to facilitate the new MCU, which also had an effect on some of the software work).
    We’re running a few weeks behind schedule at the moment, and the current plan has us expecting to start shipping in June. Matt and Mat going to China will help us get the full time plan nailed down for the manufacturing process, and as soon as we have some a more precise estimates from the manufacturers. Sorry about the delay, but we’ll definitely keep you all posted as soon as we have the full details!”
    Michal: Lytro Illium does look like an awesome piece of kit! We’ll reach out to them and find out whether they have a way for us to interface with the camera.
    Rock On,
    Team Triggertrap

    Darren Ingram on April 24, 2014
    Just a general “are things on target” for May still query. Excited..

    Michal Nánási on April 24, 2014
    Any chance that Ada will be compatible with this lytro illum? https://www.lytro.com/#lytro-illum-connectivity

    Rudy Coevert on April 16, 2014
    @ brayden just like pascal said. beyond 250th of a second your doing hig speed sync.
    if you want to know more, http://www.exposureguide.com/high-speed-sync-flash.htm
    your flash fires multiple times in between closing of the curtain.
    the way pascal describes setting your camera to bulb and let your flash freese the action is much faster than the 8000th of a second. my yongnuo speedlight can get 23000th of a second. the 8000th is again a limitation of your camera. hope you can do something with this info.

    Pascal Kreil on April 15, 2014
    @Brayden you’re talking about high-speed-sync. This is not relevant for Ada. To use it with flash you simply set your camera to a slow shutter speed (or bulb) and Ada fires flash while the shutter is open. This is only the case when using Ada for high speed images.
    On the other hand, you can trigger your camera with Ada and have the camera to trigger the flash. In this case it all depends on how fast your camera/flash combination is. But this is not used for high-speed images.

    Brayden Oakley Frost on April 15, 2014
    ok thanks i was curious because i know pocket wizard has a sync speed of 1/1000th of sec up to 1/8000 of sec but a cameras sync speed is 1/250th of a sec depending on the camera.

    kokobin on April 8, 2014
    Still waiting for TC-R8 connector

    Creator Triggertrap on April 5, 2014
    Hey Brayden! There’s not a sync speed limit as such; it’ll be the same as that between your camera and your flash. / HJK

    Brayden Oakley Frost on April 1, 2014
    I have been curious about this but never ask but does the trigger trap have a sync speed limitation on it ? If so what is the sync speed limit?

    Creator Triggertrap on March 31, 2014
    Hey Michel! Yep, you can power it by USB power, too! / Haje

    Michel Ferrageau on March 29, 2014
    You mentioning the ADA is being powered by 2 AA batteries, but will it also be possible to use an external source, like e.g. a usb powerbank?

    Creator Triggertrap on March 20, 2014
    Sascha Harenbrock, we have already sent out the Backer Survey, but if you didn’t receive the email from us about Backerkit (please check your spam and junk folders just in case!) then just drop us an email to hello@triggertrap.com and we’ll resend the invite for you :)
    MDDCFlyer, we are hoping to have these cables ready for the shop before Ada ships yes, so hold tight and you should be able to add the new Sony cable to your order soon!
    Ford Crews, that’s an interesting idea. Ada will be open source, so you may need to do some DIY adjustments but this should be possible yes. Remember that there will likely be some decay when the light turns off though, so there’s plenty to play around with there!

    Ford Crews on March 20, 2014
    Will it have the ability to wait for an event, light/sound/laser then turn off an external light/relay right before it triggers the camera. Also can it do the opposite, wait for a push of the shutter, then turn off the light, wait for the event, then fire a flash?

    MDDCFlyer on March 18, 2014
    Hi team – are there plans to provide cables for the sony A7R? I would really like to supplement my order with this kind of cable but I cannot chose it from the survey.

    Sascha Harenbrock on March 17, 2014
    Hi Triggertrap-Team,
    I have a question about the Backer Survey. Have you already started the Backer Survey?
    If not, when we can expect the mail?
    greetings

    kokobin on March 16, 2014
    Finally Brian Jensen, yes you can change your backer level. If you drop us an email to hello@triggertrap.com we’ll arrange the upgrade for you!
    —–
    Whaat? Is that even possible?
    In that case, I wish to upgrade to God level.

    Creator Triggertrap on March 14, 2014
    Hi all!
    Eric Bolden – Please see the column to the right with backer levels. The Top Backer Level includes: “Everything from the Ada Platinum kit + an interconnect cable and mini tripod for each sensor (so 4 of each), to enable you to use the sensors at a distance from Ada for extra triggering flexibility”
    steve wood – the stretch goal was to add an interconnect cable to every backer level. The Top Level Backer Kit already has a full set of interconnect cables, so no extra interconnects need be included :)
    Stephen Yaldwyn, Ken Hillblom and others who were asking about updates, we apologise for the big break between updates. We didn’t want to send one out unless we really had something to show you all! Which hopefully you will agree we did in the most recent update posted. The development pace is picking up now and we are already gathering photos and factoids for the next update.
    Rudy Coevert, we’re glad you like the sensor logos! We haven’t made the decision yet as to whether they will be printed on or part of the mold yet though.
    Finally Brian Jensen, yes you can change your backer level. If you drop us an email to hello@triggertrap.com we’ll arrange the upgrade for you!

    Brian Jensen on March 3, 2014
    can I change backer level? I want to move to top backer :-)

    Rudy Coevert on March 2, 2014
    the logo’s are looking awesome.
    you promised markings to set the sensors apart you absolutely have good markings.
    are these markings printed or also in the moulds?
    I know that in the moulds is a lot more expensive (mould for every sensor) but on the other hand you can even feel wich sensor you have.

    Stephen Cottle on February 26, 2014
    was told on twitter they have a big update coming this week

    Minning Xiang on February 25, 2014
    I think now they are busy with Seedrs.

    Ken Hillblom on February 25, 2014
    Communication is the key when it comes to Kickstarter. I personally like to get an update at least once a month. I think most of us like the bigger more elaborate updates. But I’m happy to even get an update that doesn’t have all bells and whistles.
    That said, it’s been over a month since the last update :)

    Pupmeister on February 21, 2014
    When can we expect the next progress update?

    steve wood on February 20, 2014
    Can I just check, when you met your stretch goal, an interconnect cable was included. I have the platinum kit + upgrade to the top backer kit. Does this mean I will get 5 interconnect cables?
    Cheers

    Eric Bolden on February 18, 2014
    yea i just saw it…feeling a bit retarded now or is the secondary cable option new? the only reason i was asking was last time i checked it was like $40 for the dongle set, and didnt see that other option!! thanks

    Creator Triggertrap on February 18, 2014
    Hello all! Apologies for the slow reply.
    @Michael tomlinson, if you take a look at the column on the right, you’ll get everything in the Top Backer Level section. On top of that you are asked to choose an additional sensor.
    @kokobin, we’re working on this cable and it should be ready before Ada ships, so if you could hold tight for the time being that would be great!
    @Brian Jensen, Triggertrap Flash Adapter should work with all modern flashes with manual control :)
    @Thomas Greve, I’m afraid we don’t support this camera right now. Does it have a cable release socket? If it does then you may be able to buy a cable from Fuji to use with it but I’m afraid we haven’t tried this one ourselves so you may have to experiment a little! If there isn’t a cable release socket, you may not be able to get the camera working with Triggertrap for the time being I’m afraid, due to the kind of signal that is being sent. Hope that helps!
    @Eric Bolden I believe we replied to you in the forum?
    @Stephen Cottle, It’s not something we’re specifically supporting in the first version, but you could probably do it with some tweaks to the settings. Failing that it’s open source and should be a relatively simple thing to add

    Stephen Cottle on February 10, 2014
    Would we be able to control a Dolly System with the Ada?

    Eric Bolden on February 3, 2014
    Don’t suppose I could get a discount on a second camera cable? I have 2 canons, 1 60D and 1 6D, already got the 60d and need the 6d now!

    Thomas Greve on January 27, 2014
    I’d like to connect (as well as to my Nikon DSLR, but that one is well supported) TT Ada or the mobile dongle to a Fuji X10 compact camera. However, that camera has only a “mechanical” trigger (which in fact is obviously an electrical switch). If i get an electrically driven actuator (is this, what people here call a “solenoid”?), can i use that with TT? Since the thread for fastening a wire trigger seems to be standardized, is there such a thing i can buy anywhere? Or could you TT guys offer this? I guess there are quite a few cameras which can be “remote” triggered that way.

    Brian Jensen on January 22, 2014
    Hi guys. I cant wait to get my hands on the triggertrap :-)
    When I am purchasing a speedlight to work with the high speed kit, what should I be on look out for? I have an Olympus Pen PL-5, so I was thinking of getting the Olympus FL-600R but I am wondering if its a good fit..

    kokobin on January 19, 2014
    Triggertrap Cable Selector
    Choose your camera:
    Choose…Fujifilm
    Choose…HS30EXR
    Supported! Your camera uses the TC-R8 connector.
    I’m sorry this cable isn’t available at the moment.
    Would you like to be notified when it’s in stock?
    Let me know

    Michael tomlinson on January 16, 2014
    Hi,
    i have pledged 190 pound ! it offer me to have an extra item, but what is the basic item included in this pledging .. .

    Creator Triggertrap on January 13, 2014
    Hey everybody!
    @David – We haven’t set the price for the upsell Ada base unit yet, but we’re hoping to add it before we start shipping, so keep an eye out later in the year! (We’ll send out a notification as well, of course)
    @The JJ – You might want to fire a flash instead of a camera in high speed situations. Don’t worry, we’re planning an extensive number of tutorials and guides ahead of Ada shipping to explain all of this in detail :)
    @Steve Wood – Doing a hang-out is a rather good idea, I’ll have a chat with the team to see when we can arrange that. In the meantime, we’re taking suggestions and answering questions in our forums – http://tri.gg/forum
    @Hoggel as far as I’m aware, the Nikon 1AW doesn’t have a remote control socket, which means that unfortunately we’re not able to support it, sorry.
    ~ Haje

    Hoggel on January 10, 2014
    I already have a Triggertrap Mobile dongle plus cable for my main Camera, a Nikon D300.
    I pledged at the £190 level, so i can choose another connection cable. My backup / special purpose Camera is a Nikon 1 AW1. Any chance you will release a connection cable for this model? It is not supported at the moment…

    steve wood on December 27, 2013
    @Triggertrap, not sure of the practicalities, but having been part of the Peak design capture v2 kickstarter, they ran 3 hangouts at various times during the project, and it was generally hailed a success. These can be seen on youtube. It seemed a good way of them and their backers exchanging views. Do you think you might do this?

    The JJ on December 25, 2013
    ….and I guess the dongle is as well?

    Rudy Coevert on December 24, 2013
    the flash adapter is included in the top, platinum and high speed kit.

    The JJ on December 24, 2013
    I see.
    So the dongle is included in the TOP BACKER LEVEL KIT – but the flash adaptor must be purchased seperately?

    Rudy Coevert on December 24, 2013
    @the JJ the the fllash adapter is exactly the same as in the video. the flash adapter can be connected to the triggertrap mobile or in this case the triggertap Ada. so then you don’t even need an android phone because Ada does the work.
    You only need the dongle and an android or IOS phone when working with the triggertrap mobile app. in my case i’ve backed for top level kit i’ll wait till may and have lots of opportunities with high speed, because its a complete package.

    The JJ on December 24, 2013
    The dongle we are getting as included with the reward?
    My android mobile + app
    and the flash adaptor
    right?

    The JJ on December 24, 2013
    @Rudy Coevert
    Very helpful – thank-you – watched the video – makes sense!
    So just to be clear then:
    So all I need to use the flash adaptor (apart from my own equipment) is:
    THE DONGLE
    MY ANDROID MOBILE (ARE WE GOOD TO GO WITH ANDROID??)
    RIGHT?
    Thanks!
    JJ

    Rudy Coevert on December 24, 2013
    @The JJ. If your going for High speed Photography your using the speed of the flash instead of the camera. the average camera has a minimum shutterspeed of 1/4000th of second sometimes this is still to slow a canon 580Ex speedlite e.g. has an flash duration time of 1/19841.
    but to use your flash your camera should be in flash sync time (mostly between 1/100th till 1/250th of second). the introduction movie of triggertrap flash adapter shows perfectly the difference in speed by dropping a tennisbal. http://triggertrap.com/products/triggertrap-flash-adapter/

    The JJ on December 23, 2013
    Really quick question. Survey related… How come the Triggertrap Flash Adapter – states …”instead of a camera..” Is that in reference to an extra flash – as triggering the flash on my camera will happen simultaneously with my camera. How is this related?
    When would I want the flash to fire “instead of my camera”…hmmm..is this just wording issues or am i that dense…? Help!! ??

    The JJ on December 23, 2013
    @David Lewinsohn
    I think that seals the deal. Although the laser can “miss” if not placed correctly – it is generally more accurate. I believe for my purposes it will be perfect. Again – thanks for the input!

    David Lewinsohn on December 22, 2013
    @The JJ. My understanding of the Laser sensor is the it require the laser beam to be broken to activate the trigger. The amount of ambient light od not a factor. It can be in full sunlight and still only trigger when the beam is broken. Hope hope that answers your question?. Good luck with your choice. I’m leaning towards a second laser myself. :)

    The JJ on December 20, 2013
    @David Lewinsohn – I appreciate your feedback – I am definitely leaning towards that direction. My thoughts were what if the laser was not crossed – or the item to light to register- would the motion sensor react more “generically”. Or again – registering & sensitivity would be an issue. I do like its generic motion capabilities……hmmm…

    David Lewinsohn on December 19, 2013
    Hi The JJ. If I were you, I would go for the extra Laser. At your macro scale pin point focus is critical and I love shalloe DoF in macro work. The suject just “explodes” towards you. My thoughts. :)

    The JJ on December 19, 2013
    Hi all ! Can I hear from the Backers – or – Triggertrap – – I am into wildlife photography on a miniature scale – ants – praying mantis, small birds, etc – and I am torn between EXTRA motion sensor or EXTRA laser. Advice – guidance – tips – explanations???
    Thanks!
    JJ

    David Lewinsohn on December 18, 2013
    Hi TriggerTrap, I started to fill in the Backer Survey and additional purchase items but stopped because I want to add one additional TriggerTrap Ada and one additional Flash adaptor cable. Unfortunately these items were not availible to be added.
    Can you arrange for these items to be added to the Backers Kit options and obviously include the prices?
    Thank you

    Creator Triggertrap on December 18, 2013
    @Philip: That one is a pretty old post (from 2011!) – you may also want to read http://triggertrap.com/lightning-photography-the-easy-way :)
    @Joern: There are no rubber plugs protecting the USB and outputs in the current design, no.
    @Mike: Oh dear, a terrible oversight. I’ve added it in now!

    Joern Jensen on December 17, 2013
    The buttons on the Redsnap are water resistens.
    Are there som rubber plugs to protect unused connection/USB plugs ?

    Mike Stewart on December 17, 2013
    Going through the backer survey, I can’t find an option to add on another flash adapter. Will we be able to purchase additional flash adapters?

    Philip Grainger on December 17, 2013
    Can you please provide a little more detail on the light sensor and how it can be used to capture photos of lightning? I’m considering adding it to my order for this very purpose, but I’m just a bit concerned given this blog post on triggertrap: http://triggertrap.com/the-triggertrap-lightning-mode/

    Chris Owens on December 17, 2013
    All seems to be working now.

    Creator Triggertrap on December 16, 2013
    Sorry, the link should be: http://tri.gg/ks-help

    Silverback on December 16, 2013
    Hi Creator …even the link under this goes wrong ….
    Back to the drawing board ???? Just Joking !

    Adel Baroody on December 16, 2013
    I’ve got the exact same issue as Chris Owens. Now just clicking on the link that redirects me to the process gives off the red “something went wrong.” message. I’m guessing the service is down?

    Chris Owens on December 16, 2013
    Hi, I’m also getting problems with the BackerKit web. I keep getting the message “Something went wrong.” I did manage to get the the selecting shipping destination, but then it wouldn’t proceed any further.

    Creator Triggertrap on December 16, 2013
    Nam Chau – For support with the Backerkit process, could you please grab them on http://tri.g//ks-help? They’ll be able to help you out! /HJK

    Nam Chau on December 16, 2013
    I received the email to confirm my address from BackerKit for shipping of the TriggerTrap Redsnap kit.
    During the confirmation process I am allowed to add addition accessories but it is in GBP.
    I’m in the US and it shows an error after I enter my credit card info and check out.
    It says that I’m a US user and it can only process in USD but the items are in GBP.
    There’s no way for me to fix this on my end.
    Can’t your system charge the equivalent to my credit card?

    The JJ on December 16, 2013
    @Triggertrap
    Hi team!
    Just wanted to know if you are going to release an official update before xmas! How is develpment going? Is everything on track? I know May is way out there but – we would be interested in seeing or reading about any progress.
    Thanx
    JJ

    Amir Soltani on December 12, 2013
    This comment has been removed by Kickstarter.

    Minning Xiang on December 7, 2013
    @Luc T – They sell triggertrip on Amazon directly, like eBay. They have to pay an extra administration fee to Amazon as well.

    Luc T on December 7, 2013
    @Xiang – Amazon is a re-seller, probably buys trigger traps at a lower price, handles the financials and shipping, saving “triggertrap” all that fuss and administration. They take the hit on the shipping.

    Minning Xiang on December 4, 2013
    @Creator – Btu why you offer free shipping on Amazon?

    Creator Triggertrap on December 4, 2013
    Hey guys: I’m sorry you are unhappy with our free shipping for orders over £20 discount. In practice, it can cost us up to £10 in shipping to ship something.
    If someone orders a cable (£6.60), we’re in effect losing money for every order placed. To prevent that from happening, we’ve set a minimum order value. If you order two kits, or a kit and a cable, you’ll get the free shipping to anywhere in the world, which is a pretty brilliant deal, because our shipping is admittedly not the cheapest around.
    ~ Haje

    Hendrik on December 3, 2013
    Exactly. Especially when Amazon sell exactly the same item from the same people for the same price but with genuinely free shipping.

    Minning Xiang on December 3, 2013
    Free delivery for order over £20.00. oh, a dongle cost £19.50. With VAT it’s £23.40 but postage is still payable. What an insincere discount.

    Hendrik on December 2, 2013
    It has to be said that the pricing on the TriggerTrap shop is incredibly misleading. I am thinking of getting a Mobile Dongle for someone as a Christmas present. The web shop tells me it would be £19.50 and there is free worldwide shipping until Christmas. Yet, when I get to the checkout the actual price is £26 and that is including the 10% backer discount! Whereas, as Brian Walton notes below, I can go to Amazon and order the same item from the TriggerTrap Amazon shop for just £23.40. What gives?!
    I would rather support small businesses by buying direct and thus not give a cut to a monster of a business like Amazon. So I find it bizarre when the small business itself is trying their best to force me away!

    Creator Triggertrap on November 27, 2013
    Hey there Tim: That’s an interesting use case! I don’t think that’s in the current plans for the software, but here’s the amazing thing: Because Triggertrap Redsnap is an open source project, hopefully with an eager community of hackers, features like this could be added by the community in the future!
    ~Haje

    tim wong on November 23, 2013
    Would it be possible to trigger the camera/flash on subsequent activations instead of the initial one? For example using the laser trigger on waterdrops, the first drop going down would ‘arm’ the trigger but not activate, until the drop bouncing up would fire the flash/camera. Or using the sound sensor with an air rifle, the initial activation of the pellet being fired would arm the trigger, and the sound of impact would trigger the flash/camera. Or the light sensor, instead of triggering on the first firework it would trigger on the second flash.

    Creator Triggertrap on November 23, 2013
    Hey guys!
    The Backer-Only discount expired along with the end of the Kickstarter project, but I’ve now extended it to the end of the year – please see the Backer-Only update here: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/triggertrap/triggertrap-redsnap-modular-camera-trigger/posts/629599 for a reminder what the discount code is!
    / HJK

    Brian Walton on November 20, 2013
    @donnazwa if you are in the US the dongle can be purchased from Amazon.com for less than directly even with the discount (still from TriggerTrap) http://www.amazon.com/Triggertrap-Mobile-Dongle-MD-DC0-Nikon/dp/B009ABLQ1C/ref=sr_1_3… this may be a better way to buy it, not sure about other countries.

    Donnazwa on November 20, 2013
    I tried to use the Kickstarter code to purchase the dongle, but it does not work anymore (I know it said for use during the campaign). Any chance of giving us a new code, now that I understand (I think) what the dongle actually does?

    Minning Xiang on November 19, 2013
    @Eckhart Pedersen – Perhaps most of the backers want the mobile dongle shipped before the Redsnap, but I think that’s impossible. Shipping the dongle and Redsnap separately means an extra expenditure on postage.

    Eckhart Pedersen on November 19, 2013
    Will the mobile dongles for the red and platinum backers be shipped before next year, or would I need to order one now if I want it before next year?

    Creator Triggertrap on November 19, 2013
    There seems to be some confusion about the Triggertrap Redsnap Mobile Connection Cable, and the Triggertrap Mobile Dongle.
    They are two very different products.
    Triggertrap Mobile Dongle has been available for sale for a while – see more here: http://tri.gg/mobile . This product connects your Mobile device with your SLR Camera. This product is included in the Red and Platinum kits, and is meant as a bit of a bonus, in case you want to play with Triggertrap Mobile without using Redsnap.
    Triggertrap Redsnap Mobile Connection Cable is a cable that connects your Mobile device to Triggertrap Redsnap, enabling you to use the sensors on Triggertrap Mobile App (for iOS or Android) in conjunction with Triggertrap Redsnap. This cable is now included with all Triggertrap Redsnap kits, because we smashed the £250,000 stretch goal.
    Hope that clears things up a little – sorry for the confusion.

    Creator Triggertrap on November 19, 2013
    Oh my, there’s a lot of questions going on here! Let’s see if we can’t find you guys some answers…
    All of you: Thank you for your messages of congratulatory nature. We’re super chuffed and über-grateful :-)
    @David Holmes: If you end up with duplicate cables because you order some now, and you get some in May… Then you can give away the additional cables to your favourite photography friend!
    @Ben Appleton / @John Harrison / @Minning Xiang: I’m afraid that we’re not able to amend the kits. Not because we don’t want to, but we have 1971 backers, and we’re aiming to automate the whole fulfillment process as much as we can. If we’re trying to make exceptions, we may end up getting things wrong (that’s one of the big things we learned from trying to be flexible on our Triggertrap v1 Kickstarter project – it ended up costing us a tremendous amount of time and money).

    Isaiah Tanenbaum on November 18, 2013
    @troy: short answer: 1/8000 is twice as fast as 1/4000, HOWEVER if 1/4000 vs 1/8000 makes a difference for your photography then you are in the territory where you’ll want speedlites anyway, which fire pulses at 1/35000, completely eliminating this distinction. So pick the camera based on other features, price, lens availability, or brandname; you’ll never be in a situation where that difference will matter nearly as much as those other things.
    Longer answer: shutter speed is one of the primary means of controlling your exposure level, and as such, the brightness of the final image. Broadly speaking, exposure is determined by four things:
    1) the available light (which can be augmented with additional light in the form of flashes)
    2) the ISO, which determines sensitivity to light, measured roughly by the standards of traditional analog film chemicals (nowadays it’s just how sensitive the light sensor is dialed to)
    3) how long the shutter is open for (shutter speed, expressed in fractions of a second), and
    4) how wide the lens elements open (called “f-stop” or “aperture” and expressed as a guide ratio such as f/1.8 or f/5.6 — the bigger that number, the more closed-down the aperture is).
    Some photographers will quibble with which of these deserve to be on the list, but the point is that for a given level of light, you have a triangle of exposure settings on your camera to fiddle with: ISO, aperture, and shutter speed. ISO determines graininess. Aperture determines depth of field (how much of the image can be in focus at once). And shutter speed determines to what degree motion blur is present.
    Thus, the quicker the shutter, the more you are able to freeze a fast-moving object. You can see a calculator and explanation of this here:
    http://www.brisk.org.uk/photog/subblur.html
    Plugging some standard numbers in (focal length 50mm on a crop-body, 15meters away) tells us that the difference between 1/4000 of a second vs 1/8000 would only be felt once you’re in the range of 20m/s, or 45mph, moving perpendicular to the camera. If you’re taking pictures of stuff slower than that, then you won’t need to go faster than 1/4000 anyway.
    But even if you plan to take pictures faster than that, at shutter speeds so blindingly fast you are letting in so little light that you’ll almost certainly need to compensate for it by adding flashes. And since speedlites (the standard “mount on top of your camera” flashes) fire bursts as short as 1/35000 of a second, it hardly matters.

    Troy Baverstock on November 18, 2013
    Photography question – 1/8000 vs 1/4000 shutter speed, I know little about photographer and have yet to buy an SLR, the final point I’m having trouble weighing up is the shutter speed. I have the sound and laser sensor, does shutter speed have any effect on that sort of photography or is it done through a different mechanism?

    Ben Appleton on November 17, 2013
    Thanks for the clarification :-)

    Minning Xiang on November 16, 2013
    I agree with @john harrison. Also want to get the dongle before the redsnap. 6 months are too long.

    Pascal Kreil on November 16, 2013
    @Euphoria the cable in the 250k stretch goal? You can use your phone as an additional sensor or as a camera (works in both ways).

    Euphoria on November 16, 2013
    So am i right, that with this mobile cable, the redsnap is kinda of mobile dongle? :)

    Pascal Kreil on November 16, 2013
    @john uuups. You’re right. Shame on me. But it’s not shown in the table with the contents of each kit nor named elsewhere. In that case, it’s only necessary to buy a dongle now, if you want to do some work before the Redsnap ships. I’ve the dongle since it’s available and did some nice things with it.

    Johan Oscarsson on November 16, 2013
    @John: Thank you. Exactly what I was going to say…
    @Pascal: That’s what I said… We’ll all be getting a Redsnap to mobile connector (the 250,000 stretch goal). About the mobile dongle: what John said.

    Hendrik on November 16, 2013
    Read the description for the platinum and red kits: ‘… and Triggertrap Mobile Dongle’. As I have been saying from the start, you get the dongle with the kit (even though the dongle cannot be used with Redsnap). You always have. This makes it a waste of money to buy a dongle in advance because then you will have two.

    Pascal Kreil on November 16, 2013
    About the cable/dongle confusion: watch the video in Update #4. You’ll see the cable that is included in red/platinum – which obviously is not the mobile dongle.

    Pascal Kreil on November 16, 2013
    @johan nope. You’ll get a cable to connect Redsnap and the camera. But that’s not the mobile dongle, just a cable.

    Johan Oscarsson on November 16, 2013
    Oh, and by the way:
    @Triggertrap: Woooohooooo!

    Johan Oscarsson on November 16, 2013
    @Pascal: Well actually, both the platinum and red kit contain the mobile dongle from the start…
    @Ben: If you backed the red kit you were always going to receive a mobile dongle… The extra, that everybody will get not just red kit backers, is a mobile phone to redsnap connection cable.

    Raza Naqvi on November 16, 2013
    Amazing milestone for the Triggertrap team. Shows how much faith everyone has in this project. I’ll be counting down days till May!

    Pascal Kreil on November 16, 2013
    @David there’s no additional mobile dongle in any if the kits nor the stretch goals. It’s a cable to connects phone and Redsnap.

    Pascal Kreil on November 16, 2013
    @Ben we’ll not get another Mobile Dongle. It’s a cable that allows connection between the phone and Redsnap. There’s no mobile dongle in any of the Redsnap kits.

    Rick Leslie on November 16, 2013
    Well done everyone who backed this… And the Triggertrap folks. I’m looking forward to seeing the finished product in my hands :-)

    Ben Appleton on November 16, 2013
    Hi TT,
    Massive congratulations on the inevitable successful funding of your latest project!
    A few weeks ago you sent out an update offering a discount on the mobile connection kit, which I, like I am sure many others, took the opportunity to purchase, only to find out that we kill be receiving one as a bonus for backing the red kit. Is there any way that instead of the mobile kit, backers can choose a case instead?
    Cheers
    Ben

    David Holmes on November 16, 2013
    Congratulations TT!! Proud to be part of what appears to be a fantastic product for amateur shutterbugs as myself. Only thing is, now what will I do with the cables I got for my cell if I get new ones in May? Congrats again!

    Hoggel on November 16, 2013
    Congratulations Triggertrap!
    Today you can party and hopefully tomorrow you will start to make an awesome product ;-)…
    Really looking forward to this!!!

    fhdogs on November 16, 2013
    Congratulations TT team! I’m so glad I found your project the day before the funding period ended. I can’t wait to get my kit. I’ve got shoot ideas already, and can’t wait to pair the Redsnap with other Kickstarter projects I’ve backed.

    Joe Rotruck on November 16, 2013
    Congratulations!
    May 2014 is just NEVER going to get here :-(

    Creator Triggertrap on November 16, 2013
    Don’t worry. We’ll keep you all updated every step of the way.

    The JJ on November 16, 2013
    Raising a glass to TT!
    Keep in touch (With a straight face) I mean it ——– :D
    Im sure u guys will do great! Now slow down on the suds & get cracking! (Whipping sound!)
    Bravo!! :)

    Ahmed Jaber on November 16, 2013
    Grats! I’m looking forward to making some creative images, and May can’t come soon enough.

    Isaiah Tanenbaum on November 16, 2013
    Congrats TT guys! Can’t wait to start playing with these!

    Creator Triggertrap on November 16, 2013
    The easy part is always having the idea. Pit half a dozen people in a room, and you’ll generate 900 amazing ideas in an hour. The hard parts are saying ‘no’ and keeping focus.

    LGroenendijk on November 16, 2013
    Congrats Team!!! Can’t wait (only 196 days to go ;-)

    Pierre Ukelo on November 16, 2013
    Congratulations! Well done!….
    Quick question: was this the easy part?

    Matthew Thomas on November 16, 2013
    Congrats guys!!! Awesome achievement!

    Maurice Uijlenbroek on November 16, 2013
    Congratulations team triggertrap! Can’t wait till it’s May. Good-luck in the coming months!

    Creator Triggertrap on November 16, 2013
    AND IT’S ALL OVER! Final tally on Kickstarter: 1,971 backers and £290,386. 580%!!!! THANK YOU EVERYBODY!!

    Bo Bickley on November 16, 2013
    Crap! TOAST! Not roast. Autocorrect strikes again :-(

    Bo Bickley on November 16, 2013
    Alright everybody, it’s time to raise your pints! A huge roast to everybody on the team for a job well done.

    Manfred Winter on November 16, 2013
    Congratulations!

    Pascal Kreil on November 16, 2013
    @Leslie I hope we’ll see some stunning work :-)

    Richard J R Fletcher on November 16, 2013
    wow so close to £300 k !!
    Congratulations :-)

    Pascal Kreil on November 16, 2013
    The 10 Queue Jumpers were missing :-(

    kokobin on November 16, 2013
    Hip!! Hip!! Hip!!
    Trigggertrap!!
    Hip!! Hip!! Hip!!
    Trigggertrap!!
    Funded!!!

    Leslie L Eaton on November 16, 2013
    @Pascal Sorry, I’m never sure exactly how much people understand about NASA and flight readiness.

    Pascal Kreil on November 16, 2013
    So sad… We’re not breaking the 600% :-(

    Pascal Kreil on November 16, 2013
    @tad we’ll get the option add additional stuff before they ship it (was written somewhere in the comment from TT-staff)

    kokobin on November 16, 2013
    I solemnly believe that:
    All the 965+ people
    Who paid a lot of Benjamins,
    Greenbacks and Moolah
    Would be happy and pleased
    With Triggertrap when
    We get a good case to protect
    Our precious investment in all its
    Marvellous techno-dazzlement

    tad davis on November 16, 2013
    I went with the high speed kit, can I add the high speed light sensor?

    Pascal Kreil on November 16, 2013
    @Leslie just kidding

    Leslie L Eaton on November 16, 2013
    NASA is a LOT more picky about what gets approved that the Russians. Especially for safety. I’d have to even do off-gassing and radiation testing on it!

    Pascal Kreil on November 16, 2013
    @Leslie an USB thumb with russian viruses got approved – so why not a Redsnap? ;-)

    Leslie L Eaton on November 16, 2013
    Wondering if I will be able to get the TriggerTrap flight certified for the International Space Station . . . . Talk about out of this world photos!!

    The JJ on November 16, 2013
    @Johan Oscarsson – thanks!
    @Triggertrap – Rock solid! Crystal clear! Thanks for the answers. With 1 Hr left huge Congrats are in order! Bravo guys! I think that the rides has not even begun yet so I am staying on this train to the last stop!!
    Remember guys keep us updated cuz we’ll thirst for updates! Stay transparent! Stay true!
    Whew- that’s some other bad kickstarter project talking :)
    Lets go 300 000! First round is on…………………….snap i missed it!!!!!!!! :)

    Joern Jensen on November 16, 2013
    Thanks for your input.
    Pledged the Red & Timelaps kit.
    Hope the products is as nice as described :-)

    Eckhart Pedersen on November 16, 2013
    Only 16000 £ to go…

    David on November 16, 2013
    @joern I always like having a couple controllers, one for backup or one to have with another camera kit.
    Nice to not worry if one gets dropped or lost. Gear like this isn’t always used in a studio :)

    Mathew P. Hodgkin on November 16, 2013
    I live in London,
    so I rather travel by tube then train

    Pascal Kreil on November 16, 2013
    @Joern you can trigger two different setups – but to my knowledge there’s no way to connect both Redsnaps together. I can’t think of a setup where this should be needed. You can connect all sensors to one Redsnap.

    Joern Jensen on November 16, 2013
    Anyone can answer if there is a benefit of getting 2 controllers ?
    Have pledged for the red kit, but thinking of getting a timelaps kit (another controller)
    Can they be connected to some great setup ?

    Christopher Harvey on November 16, 2013
    How about a trigger trap backers tee-shirt??

    Luc T on November 16, 2013
    @Triggertrap wow, Congrats on your awesome product and achievements, Truly amazing, this is my first ever Kickstarter back, i’m very happy to have discovered your products and am contributing to such a wonderful product. any chance of getting it before may (wishful thinking) ;)

    Lizeth Rovers (deleted) on November 15, 2013
    Compliments to all of you in the TT team! What a journey!

    Alan Oliver on November 15, 2013
    Will I be able to order a PIR sensor to be delivered at the same time as my other kit arrives?
    Thanks Alan

    Stephen Cottle on November 15, 2013
    Would be up for a Bristol Pub night

    Minning Xiang on November 15, 2013
    Wow, 1800+backers, will be a quite large party! Is a return ticket to London included? lol

    Creator Triggertrap on November 15, 2013
    A backers’ pub night does sound like a good idea! You’d need to get yourselves to London or Bristol though if we did have one.

    Mathew P. Hodgkin on November 15, 2013
    Agree with John,
    Pub night with the creators!

    Hendrik on November 15, 2013
    At £300,000, the creators take us all down the pub for a celebratory pint :)

    Joern Jensen on November 15, 2013
    STRETCH GOAL for £300.000 ?

    Creator Triggertrap on November 15, 2013
    John is correct: you’ll be able to specify the exact length of the trigger pulse.

    Hendrik on November 15, 2013
    It can already do that (I think). My understanding is that you can set exactly how long the shutter is held for on each trigger. The intention is to take bulb exposures. However, if your camera is set for burst instead of bulb then you should get a sequence of shots exactly as you desire.

    Lars Vincent Pedersen on November 15, 2013
    Congratulations on the succesfull campaign :) I just added into it with a red kit, and there is one functionality I would really appriciate in the final version. My camera has 12 fps in the highspeed mode, and if Triggertrap can hold the trigger for 1, maybe even 2 sec´s after the initial first frame that would open up for some really interesting sequences. Secondly what if the best picture is “hiding” 1, 2 or even 3 decisecond after the trigger is activated?
    If you include it I´ll really appriciate it :)
    Thanks,
    /Lars

    Creator Triggertrap on November 15, 2013
    Hi everyone! I’m going to try and answer as many of these questions as I can.
    Donna Mierzwa: yes, this is all you will need to connect Redsnap to the mobile app. No dongle required. Also, yes we will be using Backerkit and will be offering some upgrades.
    jcip: Johan is correct: all backers will be getting the Redsnap – mobile cable. No dongle required.
    @The JJ: correct. At lets you use the phone instead of a DSLR, but also lets you trigger Redsnap from your phone. It’s a two way thing. To answer your other question: you can attach as many sensors as you want, and they can be triggered independently from each other. What you can’t do though is have one sensor trigger one camera, and another trigger a different one. The base block doesn’t know which sensor did the triggering. ” 3 different sensors triggered at separate moments by separate events (sound / movement etc) – could fire a single dslr independently in the same environment” – Exactly.
    Eckhart Pedersen: yes, you set the delay in the base unit.

    Kevin on November 15, 2013
    @Gerry There’s already a 10% backer discount being offered; check Update #1 for details.

    Eckhart Pedersen on November 15, 2013
    @Pascal: Thank you, I must confess to not having watched all of the videos yet. Really looking forward to getting my TT!

    Pascal Kreil on November 15, 2013
    @David Marvuglio still searching for the tripod clamp used by Triggertrap? Check http://triggertrap.com/tripod-clamps/

    Joern Jensen on November 15, 2013
    Is there any option in getting the Red & Timelaps kit.
    Yes, you get an extra controller for £35,-
    Can they work together ?
    Or is it 1 for camera and 1 for flash ?
    Can any give some input on the extra controller ?

    Pascal Kreil on November 15, 2013
    @Eckhart yes, you can set a delay. Watch the video in Update #4, it’s told there.

    Eckhart Pedersen on November 15, 2013
    Will it be possible to set a delay for the sensors, so that e.g. the sound sensor would trigger a given number of miliseconds AFTER it has heard the sound? Or can this be done in the base unit?

    Johan Oscarsson on November 15, 2013
    @Gerry: £33,000 in 9 hours? I guess anything is possible… :-)

    Gerry on November 15, 2013
    Any last minute 300,000 stretch goals? Discount for a purchase at your shop perhaps?

    Johan Oscarsson on November 15, 2013
    @The JJ: Don’t know if this is what you’re looking for, but several sensor connected at the same time can be triggered with either an AND (all sensors) or an OR (any of the sensors) context. See the last paragraph in the “Advanced triggering modes” of the Home-page.

    Stephen Cottle on November 15, 2013
    @Joern – just click on manage you pledge

    Joern Jensen on November 15, 2013
    The queue jumper there pledged £1000, has gone.
    Is it possible to cancel a pledge ?

    The JJ on November 15, 2013
    @Brian Walton – ok – I wanted to know if say 3 different sensors triggered at separate moments by separate events (sound / movement etc) – could fire a single dslr independently in the same environment. Although I believe this to be true…I need confirmation.
    As for the cable – confusion reigns supreme – although I thought I had it figured out! :)

    Brian Walton on November 15, 2013
    @JJ I would say in essence yes, but I think the result is not what you may be thinking. It can only set off 1 device at a time, well can be multiple but any one of the sensors would trigger all not just a select device. So if you want 1 camera flash or both to go off when any or all of the sensors trigger that will work but not having 1 thing go off when the sound sensor goes off and another one going off from the light sensor. This is how I believe it will work.
    @ JJ for the trigger trap mobile cable it will allow the trigger trap mobile application on a device (pad or phone) to interact with the trigger trap redsnap. This is not for having the redsnap to control the camera on the phone (that may work possibly but not from what I have understood).

    The JJ on November 15, 2013
    @ Johan – so that’s basically the one that operates Triggertrap red hardware with your mobile and not your dslr? as opposed to the dongle which is used strictly with your mobile and software app…right?
    @Triggertrap: I know I sound like a broken record – but we have a project in mind that needs this answered!
    “Can all sensors operate at once “pointed” at different subject matter in the same location – for different purposes? ”
    Thanks!!
    JJ

    Johan Oscarsson on November 15, 2013
    @jcip: No, we’ll all be getting the Redsnap to mobile connector, not the dongle.

    jcip on November 15, 2013
    Cool, we past the stretch goal.
    So, I guess we’re getting the Triggertrap Mobile V2.
    Just a question. I have the Triggertrap Mobile V1 from the first Kickstarter, I never quite understand what IS the difference between V1 and V2?
    Thanks.

    Minning Xiang on November 15, 2013
    @David Marvuglio I don’t know what’s that but I did buy a 1/4″ Stand Mount Tripod Holder (the tripod is exactly same as the one shown on the project home page) and a 1/4″-20 Tripod Mount Screw to Flash Hot Shoe Adapter on eBay. The holder and tripod cost me £3.09 including postage and the adapter cost me 2.19 including postage. With that I can fix my iphone on the top of the hot shoe, and then I also got an extra tripod for the Redsnap.
    (P.S. four tripods and 3.5mm cables cost about £7 on eBay)

    David Marvuglio on November 15, 2013
    Off the wall question=>does anyone know what is the brand of the holder of the iPhone below the the Canon camera camera on the front page of the kickstarted page?

    Donnazwa on November 15, 2013
    I’m just a little confused and want to clarify…. since you reached the 500% mark (CONGRATULATIONS!), we will all get the Triggertrap Redsnap connection cable. Do we need anything else to make the redsnap work with the Mobile 2.0 app?
    Also, the other campaigns I backed used the Backer kit and I was able to add to the order after the project closed. I was hoping to add a PIR sensor (if available and depending on cost)to my lightning kit, and just wanted to make sure I would be able to do that. Thanks.

    Raza Naqvi on November 15, 2013
    I cross-posted a link to my photography group. I backed the Triggertrap V1 as well and I’m really excited to see the next level of triggers becoming a reality. I’m really hoping you guys can create a Windows Phone app/dongle as well now that you have 5x the funding :D

    Creator Triggertrap on November 15, 2013
    Hey everyone! I’m here, and ready to answer some questions :)
    @Bo Bickley – We’re not able to offer more than one kit, as that’s against Kickstarter rules. You can use a second account to back us twice, if you want.
    @David Marvuglio – We have tested the laser sensor at distances of 3-5 meters, and it works fine at those distances!
    @Arnout Kazemier – Thank you for your support :-)
    @The JJ – We don’t know what the maximum distance between Laser and Mirror is, because we don’t have the final versions of these devices yet. Stay tuned!
    @Jonathan Yao – Yes, the Redsnap does not have an IR remote transmitter, sorry.
    @David Marvuglio – Yes, the mirror is included with the laser sensor!
    @Luc Menard – Yes, the flash-adapter is the TT-FA1 – like the one in our shop! You don’t need one adapter per flash – you can connect two flashes to each TT-FA1, and if you have a transmitter, you can add that to the flash adapter, and trigger as many flashes as you want.
    ~ Team Triggertrap / Haje

    Bo Bickley on November 15, 2013
    @Richard J R Fletcher – I’m already at the Red Kit level and won’t be going higher – I’d be shot if I did.

    Bo Bickley on November 15, 2013
    @Gerry – no not exactly. I could do that I suppose. I re-read the FAQ and it seems pretty clear that I should be able to accomplish the same thing once the campaign is over.

    Ian McCamley on November 15, 2013
    Wow

    Minning Xiang on November 15, 2013
    500% Now! Congratulation!

    Gerry on November 15, 2013
    @Bo Bickley If jyou’re talking about me, I have a second account that I use for Kickstarter projects when I want to bid on multiple tiers. Right now this account is at the Redsnap Kit level and my other account is at the High Speed Kit level.

    Richard J R Fletcher on November 15, 2013
    Bo Bickley
    I used the manage my pledge and just picked a higher level checked the value jad changed and confirmed payment conditions. It now shows me pledged at the higher level.

    Bo Bickley on November 15, 2013
    @Triggertrap – Totally confused now by your most recent response. I know you guys are running crazy and excited but…
    Can I increase my pledge by £35 and get an additional Redsnap (Timelapse kit)? Your response a day or so ago said there was no way to do it through KS yet others appear to be increasing their pledges to accomplish the same thing.
    23 hours left and I’m getting a little anxious that I’m going to miss the opportunity. A little clarity here would be helpful – sorry if I’m just dense.
    Also congrats on the “Best Company” award – but us here already knew that!
    Cheers!!

    Stephen Cottle on November 15, 2013
    Enjoy the celebrations – you deserve it

    Creator Triggertrap on November 15, 2013
    Hey everyone!
    We are celebrating winning ‘best company’ in the Bristol Venturefest today – we’ll get back with proper answers and updates ASAP.
    Sorry about the delay!
    ~ Hsje

    David Marvuglio on November 15, 2013
    +1 TheJJ
    Anyone know the max distance between mirror and laser and how long the cables are? Could we use simple audio cables to extend?

    Stephen Cottle on November 15, 2013
    Under 5k to go with 23 hours to go – doing good people

    Arnout Kazemier on November 15, 2013
    Upgaded to the Red kit <3

    The JJ on November 15, 2013
    @Triggertrap – More questions :)!!
    How long are the sensor connect cables?
    What is the max distance between mirror & laser?
    Thanks!!
    JJ

    The JJ on November 15, 2013
    @Triggertrap – great!! Thanks will check it out…
    What about
    “Can all sensors operate at once “pointed” at different subject matter in the same location – for different purposes? ”
    Thanks!! – COME ON 250!!
    JJ

    Johan Oscarsson on November 15, 2013
    At this rate you’re gonna hit that 250,000 mark like a ton of bricks… Congratulations and, woohoo!

    Jonathan Yao on November 15, 2013
    I did not see any mention of it so I am assuming that the Redsnap is not going to have a IR transmitter onboard? It was useful on the V1 for cameras that have a IR remote trigger but no remote port, like my Nikon D40

    Daniel Sabourin on November 14, 2013
    Added £40 to my early bird. Come on £250k…

    David Marvuglio on November 14, 2013
    @T1 Does a mirror come with Red kit?
    How many meters can the mirror be away from the laser?

    Luc Menard on November 14, 2013
    Hi guys,
    didn’t find a definitive answer, but is the flash adapter twin-hotshoe style like the mobile one ? in other terms, do we need an adapter per flash… ?

    Creator Triggertrap on November 14, 2013
    @Bo Bickley: two Redsnap kits? Now we’re talking!

    Creator Triggertrap on November 14, 2013
    @The JJ: weatherproofing will happen one way or another, but we’re still getting together quotes from some options. Whether we supply it as an optional extra, or whether we find a third party solution, we haven’t quite worked out yet.
    The relationship between the mirror and the emitter/sensor can be seen in Tom’s demo video in backer update #4!

    Gerry on November 14, 2013
    @Bo Bickley… now you’ve got me thinking about getting a second set! I hate you.
    I also love you. Added on a High Speed Kit. I’ll now have two of everything except the Light sensor plus plenty of tripods and cables.

    The JJ on November 14, 2013
    @all Backers – thanks for the answers! Still a bit cloudy!
    @Triggertrap – Can you please elaborate:
    What is the relationship with the laser and the mirror? ie. the actual physical mechanics (is this a built in mechanism – or I have to setup 2 items where a breach of the laser creates the trigger?
    Can all sensors operate at once “pointed” at different subject matter in the same location – for different purposes?
    What is the result of exploring weatherproofing?
    Thanks again!! JJ

    Bo Bickley on November 14, 2013
    That’s why I was thinking about picking up another Redsnap. I could do a time lapse on one setup and light sensor on another and track a storm with two cameras. Or two lasers on two different plant areas looking for different triggers.

    Gerry on November 14, 2013
    Soooo… for people who are getting an extra sensor… (and everyone else too)… what do you guys think would be most useful as the 5th pick? My initial thought is that Lazer and PIR have the most potential, with a second Sound sensor being possibly useful, and Light in last place. But I’m really not all that sure and don’t know what to pick.

    David Marvuglio on November 14, 2013
    At what distance can the mirror be from the laser?
    Is a mirror coming in the Red kit?

    Pascal Kreil on November 14, 2013
    @The JJ: Two AA batteries are needed to power redsnap. There are no additional batteries needed for the sensors. They are powered by the main unit. From the description-page: “The sensors are powered by the two AA batteries in Redsnap, and can be hooked up either by snapping them into place, or by wiring them together with a special connection cable.”

    Pascal Kreil on November 14, 2013
    @Isaiah (first, I’m not TT staff) – the kit contains the camera connection and the flash adaptor, correct (before the kit ships, they’ll ask which camera-cable is needed). There is a nice chart (added later) on the description page showing all the contents of each kit.
    You can connect the flash to the camera itself and it should fire. But that won’t work when you’re going to make high-speed pictures (flash fires only when the shutter opens and it’s necessary for high-speed imagery that the shutter opens first and stays open and the flash fires while the shutter is open) – so better go with the adaptor or use a speedlite on the TT-flash adaptor.

    Stephen Cottle on November 14, 2013
    @JJ
    the laser is aimed at the mirror then bounced back to the sensor – once broken will trigger the camera/flash
    weatherproofing – I plan to use it out side so keeping the rain off would be handy to have

    Isaiah Tanenbaum on November 14, 2013
    (the TT-Mobile->Snap cable being the 250K stretch goal, which I’m sure you’ll make)

    Isaiah Tanenbaum on November 14, 2013
    @Pascal – oh, that is a very good point re: flash duration that I hadn’t considered. I guess maybe I will find a non-event photography use for that Speedlite after all. :)
    So then the connection cables that ship with the Red kit are a Snap->camera, Snap->hotshoe, and TT-Mobile->Snap? And to connect my strobe I can either buy a hotshoe->RCA adapter or else hook it up to the camera itself via the camera’s auxiliary flash-out?
    Good luck with the final rush guys! Looking forward to giving you a pile of money in two days!

    The JJ on November 14, 2013
    OKAY BETTER LATE THAN NEVER!!
    All in! Come on guys make a kicka$$ product we could all be thrilled with!
    Questions! – sorry if answered: What is the relationship with the laser and the mirror?
    Can all sensors operate at once “pointed” at different subject matter in the same location – for different purposes?
    What is the result of exploring weatherproofing?
    How do these recharge – or do they take standard AA/AAA batteries / all units?
    Thanks,
    JJ

    Pascal Kreil on November 14, 2013
    @Isaiah
    If you connect a standard Sync-cable to the sync port of the flash, it’s just a simple contact and using an adaptor (there are adaptors available for hot shoe that offer a cable sync output) it will work.
    But there’s another thing you should think of. The Bee 800’s shortest flash duration is a 1/6000 of a second. That might be too long to – say freeze the bullet and the image will show blur due to the movement of the object. As a comparison, a Speedlite (Nikon SB910) has a flash duration of only 1/38,000 of a second (lowest power setting) which really freezes the bullet.

    Bo Bickley on November 14, 2013
    Thanks for the response. What has been done on other campaigns is if a backer increases their pledge by a known lower pledge amount and messages the project team what they are doing so that everyone knows what’s going on, it all works out in the end.
    Just trying to help up the numbers with about 2 days left to go. If you’d like to cross check that and consider allowing that to happen I’m sure I’m not the only one who would like to take advantage of it. Every little bit helps ;-)
    Cheers!!

    Isaiah Tanenbaum on November 14, 2013
    That’s good news indeed! Please let me know what you find!

    Creator Triggertrap on November 13, 2013
    Sorry, that last comment was meant to be to Isaiah Tanenbaum.

    Creator Triggertrap on November 13, 2013
    @Bo: regarding the strobes, the physical connection isn’t a problem as the outputs are standard 2.5mm sockets like those used by Triggertrap Mobile. Our flash adapter uses a 2.5mm to 3.5mm cable for connection, and it *may* be the same. However I don’t know what circuitry those strobes use so I’d like to do a bit more research before saying either way.

    Creator Triggertrap on November 13, 2013
    @Stephen and Brian:
    A solenoid is certainly doable, and is something we may do in future. It would be just another output. You’ll note we have three outputs on the base block, which would work well for camera, flash and an accessory. The output is just a switch with a 2.5mm socket, so it could be quite a simple circuit. In the meantime, yes a laser trigger is a great way to do this.
    @Bo: there is no way to do that directly from within Kickstarter, though we will be taking pre-orders for add-ons from backers after the campaign closes.

    Isaiah Tanenbaum on November 13, 2013
    Could you use the laser and interrupt it with a water drop? Add a delay and voila, water droplet!
    Or sound? How sensitive is the sound sensor?
    Still waiting on the strobe connection question.

    Bo Bickley on November 13, 2013
    @Minning
    As a last resort yes but normally there is a way to communicate it to the project team and modify your pledge – kind of like moving up to the Red kit from another pledge.

    Stephen Cottle on November 13, 2013
    @Brian I cant see way not either as the other water drop system ive seen just uses as 2.5 jack plugged in to their machine and if V1 had it why is it missing in Redsnap

    Minning Xiang on November 13, 2013
    @Bo Bickley One Redsnap can be used with many sensors at same time. If you still want another Redsnap, I think there is a trick — register another Kickstarter account :D

    Brian Walton on November 13, 2013
    @Stephen Cottle at this point I do not think there is a way to do that. I had asked and there is not dry contacts to switch the solenoid with. I hope I am incorrect as it would be a great addition, I had asked a similar question earlier in the comments. The TriggerTrap v1.0 had the capability.

    Bo Bickley on November 13, 2013
    Question please – with 67 hours to go… want to help hit the next level.
    With the additional 200K stretch goal achieved I am considering getting an extra time-lapse kit to also use with the extra sensor. I am already at the Red Kit level and I don’t want to screw that up. Do I just add 35 to my existing pledge amount? Do I need to send a message too?
    Oh one more thing, any chance you are going to have black apparel with red lettering? Kind of goes with the new gear.

    Stephen Cottle on November 13, 2013
    How would you connect a solenoid to the red snap for water droplets as I’m building the water chamber with the solenoid at the moment

    Daniel Sabourin on November 13, 2013
    Wow 1500 backers !

    Pascal Kreil on November 13, 2013
    71 hours to go and only £32,328 away from £250,000. We’re getting closer…

    Luc T on November 13, 2013
    I think you guys are are doing great work, I just upped my pledge to Red Kit level, for me that 270$ Canadian funds. I’m loving the Mobile Trigger Trap now. I can’t wait to get my hands on this. As for the stretch goals, I love it, and you know, there will always be ppl who complain about all the little things. I’m very happy and excited about this, keep up the great work!

    Minning Xiang on November 13, 2013
    @Creator Any project cannot satisfy everyone. Just carry on, we know you will do your best to make Redsnap perfect.

    Creator Triggertrap on November 12, 2013
    Dear backers!
    I think there’s quite a lot of negativity going on in our comments, which is making me sad. We’re working around the clock to create an awesome new product for everyone to enjoy. Make no mistake about it: Triggertrap Redsnap is going to completely revolutionise high speed photography.
    We are a very small company (6 full-time employees, and a small army of freelancers and contractors). Will we get everything 100% right? Possibly not, but that is OK: We are planning for some things to not go completely to plan, and we’re ready for a few wobbles along the way. Our promise is this: We are incredibly grateful for your mind-blowing level of support, and we’ll do everything we can do to make sure everybody is happy.
    So, if you’re unhappy about anything, I am always here for you. If anything isn’t clear, I’m always happy to try to clarify. Grab me at any time on hello@triggertrap.com, and I’ll get back to you as soon as I can.
    ~ Haje Jan Kamps
    CEO, Triggertrap

    Creator Triggertrap on November 12, 2013
    @John Harrison: Very good feedback. It is always too easy to forget that what is obvious to us (because we’ve been living and breathing Triggertrap for the past years), isn’t necessarily obvious to everyone. We’ll take a closer look at everything and see if we can reconcile everything so everybody is happy.

    Pascal Kreil on November 12, 2013
    John. This cable is only needed if you want to connect your phone with redsnap. Everything else is included. The mobile dongle, the flash adaptor. Everything. There is no requirement in the purchase of any other things in prior. Except a Camera with bulb-mode. Calm down everyone.

    Hendrik on November 12, 2013
    An iPhone? Ooh, no. If they include that and I’m cancelling my pledge!
    I think the extra cable is a good stretch goal for the single sensor tiers. I just feel that it really should have been included in the platinum and above levels from the start. I would also have preferred to see them £20 cheaper and not include the dongle. If that had been the case, I would have bought the dongle when I first pledged. As it is, I am not going to spend the extra money just to get it now rather than in May.

    Minning Xiang on November 12, 2013
    @John Harrsion You’re right, they missed a lot in the package. At least they don’t put an iPhone into the package, and a top level DLSR is also missing.

    Hendrik on November 12, 2013
    The problem (for me at least) is that the ‘everything you could ever need’ packages do not actually include everything you could ever need. They are in fact missing an important (but cheap?) cable. Whereas they do include a dongle which a) can’t be used with Redsnap itself and b) Triggertrap are pushing us to buy separately anyway (and quite a few people probably already have from before Redsnap started).
    This was not clear to everyone before hand. I’m not saying that we were deliberately mislead. The packages do state quite clearly what is supplied. So I’m sure that TT thought it was obvious what we would get. However, for those of us that are new to TT, I think it there was much confusion over what the ‘dongle’ really is and what it does. Or rather, what it doesn’t do!

    Leif Nilsson on November 12, 2013
    Guys, whats the fuzz about? The stretch goal is a good thing, its just silly to complain the way some of u do, I dont see the problem.

    Isaiah Tanenbaum on November 12, 2013
    Any answers on the connection question? Maybe providing a photo of everything that’s included in the various levels will be helpful. I feel like a lot of people are confused at this point and a picture could clear things up.

    Stephen Cottle on November 12, 2013
    And it shows the the early bird doesn’t always get the worm.

    Wollemi Pine on November 12, 2013
    That’s exactly how early birds work. First come, first serve.

    Minning Xiang on November 12, 2013
    @Wollemi Pine That won’t work. If a new early bird level was created, all of the new rewards will be taken by people who find the new level first, the existing early birds won’t have any priority.

    Mosley Hardy on November 12, 2013
    my apologies if this is a repeat question – what is the configuration and length of the interconnect cables, please?

    Wollemi Pine on November 12, 2013
    When the tier levels are unfair, it’s poor design of the kickstarter setup. But it’s easily fixed by creating a new early bird level for the Redsnap Red Kit.

    Creator Triggertrap on November 12, 2013
    @Michael Gwincinski: First of all, congratulations on snagging one of the Early Bird backer levels. It was sold out in under 90 minutes. Understandably, too: It is a bloody awesome deal. I’m sorry you feel that that it isn’t fair, but look at it this way: If it is the additional sensor you are looking for, you’ll be able to buy one for (a lot) less money than it would cost you to upgrade to the Red kit. We’ll be sharing additional information about that as the campaign comes to a close.

    Creator Triggertrap on November 12, 2013
    @Chris Simmons: we love Android, so yes, we’re planning to use a TRRS plug, which is compatible both with Android and iOS devices.

    Michael Gwincinski on November 12, 2013
    I honestly believe that £ 200.000 stretch goal is not fair to first Platinum backers.
    As a Early Bird to get an extra sensor would cost me £ 65.00. Thats a price of “upgrade” to the Red kit. £ 65.00 is around $ 100 mark which is incidentally rough price quoted here for the Redsnap with one sensor. I always thought that being first might be appreciated a little bit more.

    Chris Simmons on November 12, 2013
    Is the triggertrap redsnap mobile connection cable going to be compatible with android? Is it just going to plug into the audio jack?
    Great project keep up the good work.

    Creator Triggertrap on November 12, 2013
    @Stephen Hersee:
    Our Triggertrap Flash Adapter has a tripod mount on it – and Thomas has screwed a tripod mounting plate into it in the video, to give the Flash Adapter some firm footing!

    Stephen Hersee on November 12, 2013
    In the video sent out with Update #4 where Thomas explained the Redsnap features, what stand is he using to hold the flash + flash adapter up?
    The stand with my flash doesn’t attach like that, they are both female hot shoe mounts on the flash adapter and the flash shoe.

    Hendrik on November 12, 2013
    > it allows you to both use the mobile as another sensor … This might sound pointless until…
    ‘It’ being the cable not the dongle, right? I can definitely see the advantage in using a smart phone in a Redsnap system. The phone has lots of extra sensors that can be used as triggers. Like you say, it can also do post processing after the capture. What I don’t understand is why the top tier rewards include a device (the dongle) which does not allow a smart phone and the Redsnap to communicate with each other. Whereas the device which would allow this (the cable) is an optional extra even on the ‘everything you could possibly need’ tiers. That seems backwards to me. Especially when the included dongle is expensive but the excluded cable is cheap!

    Creator Triggertrap on November 12, 2013
    @John Harrison: it allows you to both use the mobile as another sensor, but also as another output. This means you can trigger the phone at the same time as an SLR. This might sound pointless until you realise you can use Photo Stream or Dropbox upload to share the photos in realtime. If you have a camera trap set up it means you can get a remote preview of what it’s caught.

    Creator Triggertrap on November 12, 2013
    @Minning Xiang – If we don’t hit the £250,000 goal, we will, of course, offer the Mobile Connection Cables for sale at a later date!
    @John Harrison – The Triggertrap Redsnap Mobile connection cable is a TRRS cable which enables two-way communication between the Triggertrap Mobile app and Triggertrap Redsnap. This will enable the Triggertrap Redsnap to send commands to Triggertrap Mobile, and it will enable the use of the sensors in Triggertrap Mobile to trigger Redsnap. We haven’t completely nailed down which functionality will be available, which is why we’ve been (deliberately) vague about this — but some of our ideas are covered on the Kickstarter page. See the “Integration with Triggertrap Mobile” section.
    The Triggertrap Mobile Dongle is a separate product, which enables your mobile phone to trigger your camera. Please see http://shop.triggertrap.com/products/triggertrap-mobile-dongle for more info about the dongle itself, and http://tri.gg/mobile for a more in-depth page about our Triggertrap Mobile apps.
    As you point out, the Triggertrap Mobile Dongle is not for use alongside Triggertrap Redsnap — but there are situations where Triggertrap Mobile makes sense (say, facial recognition triggering, which Redsnap currently doesn’t have a sensor for), but in other situations (say, high-speed triggering), Redsnap is the right choice.
    Ian: Turning off the non-broken laser is an interesting idea; It’s not something we’ve looked at so far, but please bring that idea with you to http://tri.gg/redsnap-forum , so we have the idea stored somewhere for future feature ideas!
    Shreds: Yes, we know we have a few upset backers at the moment – which is why we posted this morning’s Backer Update ( http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/triggertrap/triggertrap-redsnap-modular-camera-trigger/posts/658344 ) which hopefully clears a few things up!

    Minning Xiang on November 12, 2013
    250k is quite a long way to go. Could we add a certain amount pledged to the project to get a Mobile connection cable?

    Hendrik on November 12, 2013
    Still confused.
    So this is a cable to connect a smart phone to the Redsnap base unit? It will allow you to use the phone as an extra sensor (e.g. for trigger on GPS location, incoming call, email and other such ‘smart’ things?). It is just a 2.5mm jack to jack cable? Or is it something ‘intelligent’ and expensive? (e.g. a voltage level converter or ‘mobile trigger’ to ‘redsnap trigger’ protocol converter). It is not currently included in any reward level.
    The Mobile Dongle is a sort of baby base unit that allows you to plug a smart phone directly into a camera and only into a camera. It is redundant if you have the Redsnap base unit. It is included in the top reward levels.

    Leif Nilsson on November 12, 2013
    Thank you for your answer. Then I am satisfied. If I Cycle the camera shots then I will be able to use the laser and flash outdoors too, just make sure the exsposure time is totally free to set, outdoors daytime it will be short.
    excellent :)

    Ian McCamley on November 12, 2013
    You mention that the laser can be turned off when the flash triggers. If there are two laser sensors would the other (say non broken) laser also be turned off? That would be handy if you used one laser sensor for emitting and the other (free) laser sensor for receiving. If so you can count on another upgrade!

    Shreds on November 12, 2013
    Guys, I think you have some pretty disappointed, confused and upset backers. Not what you want on such a project.
    Perhaps you should think about swallowing a bit of humble pie and making what is on offer at each level just a bit sweeter, particularly at the top end?
    Good PR for the future.

    Daniel Sabourin on November 12, 2013
    Did anybody else realize that a different mobile cable would be required to mate the redsnap to your mobile device? I sure hope £250K is met otherwise many of us will be disappointed again with these stretch goals!!
    Glad to see one interconnect is included in the latest update.
    Are the interconnects 2.5mm male to 2.5mm female ?

    Creator Triggertrap on November 12, 2013
    @John Harrison – Sorry to cause confusion; we’re talking about two different items here. The Triggertrap Mobile Dongle is to connect your smartphone to your camera. The Triggertrap Redsnap Mobile Cable is to connect your Redsnap to your mobile phone. They’re two different cables, which haven’t been included in any other kits — so this is a benefit to everybody!
    To address your second question: There’s a Mobile Dongle included, but you can of course give away your spare dongle to a friend if you like!
    @Martin Heydenreich – I’m very glad you are an early backer! If you’d like to upgrade to the Red kit, you’re more than welcome to, of course, although as you note, you would lose your early backer status. You are, however, getting the Redsnap to Triggertrap Mobile cable, along with the other backers!
    @Tim Rix: We don’t have precise data for the sensor distances yet, but they work well at long distances, too – the reason they are close to each other in the video is to make it easier to keep everything on the screen!

    Hendrik on November 12, 2013
    Now I’m confused. The latest stretch goal bonus is just a 2.5mm cable or is a full Mobile Dongle worth £23? Either way, it is included in the Platinum/Red package already? So again, this goal is of no use to a large number of people – in this case 81% of backers.
    I would still like an answer to my question about whether the mobile dongle can be dropped from the Platinum/Red package if one has already bought it separately? I can’t see there being any advantage to having two dongles.

    Tim Rix on November 12, 2013
    Firstly stretch goals: I’m not overly bothered about these – we all knew the rewards for each level of pledge when we pledged. If you want more toys, pledge more money!
    Secondly, triggers: At what distance will the laser/PIR triggers work? The demo videos show them very close together, which will alienate even more of your potential (wildlife photographer) customers.
    Finally, autofocus? (I seem to remember this “disappearing” from a previous version.) Will Triggertrap Redsnap support autofocus?

    Martin H. on November 11, 2013
    as an early bird platinum backer I do not think this is a very fair stretch goal for us early birds. We would have to pay 65 to get the same as the non early birds for only +40.
    just my two cents …
    But anyways …. looking forward to getting the kit in may.

    Creator Triggertrap on November 11, 2013
    That should say “1000 times faster”: the laser sensor triggers in around 50 microseconds, whereas shutter lag is at least 50 milliseconds.

    Creator Triggertrap on November 11, 2013
    Leif: for a laser trigger you either need an external laser to point at the sensor, or an integrated unit and a mirror. We went for the latter as it allows us to control the laser and turn it off when the flash triggers.
    Yes, you will be able to trigger the camera too, but it does need to trigger the flash to capture the actual shot. Even the fastest SLR has a shutter lag that is far too long to open in time to catch a bullet. A fast one takes around 50 milliseconds to open the shutter, during which time a bullet would travel 20 metres or so! Worse still, that lag is quite variable and could easily be ten ms either say, placing the bullet metres away from where you’d planned it. That’s a very fast one too: most cameras have shutter lags of more than 100ms.
    This all means that it’s much better to trigger the flash, which is essentially instant, and the laser trigger is 1000 faster than the shutter lag. What Redsnap will be able to do is cycle the shutter with exposures of, say, 5 seconds, meaning you don’t need to worry about the camera.

    Minning Xiang on November 11, 2013
    I agree with Lief on the mirror. I think something can be learnt from the bar gun. Hope there is no mirror with V3 :)

    Leif Nilsson on November 11, 2013
    For some reason my comment was removed. But…
    The laser trigger only triggers the flash? Not the camera? This means you must be in a dark room do use it? Can in trigger the camera too? You probably wont me firing a gun indoors in a dark room very much.
    And what is the maximun distance for using the laser? The mirror stuff makes it very complicated, also the mirror migt end up in the shot.

    Jim Campbell on November 11, 2013
    Thanks!

    Creator Triggertrap on November 11, 2013
    @Mosley Hardy:
    Unfortunately we haven’t set the prices for the Post-Kickstarter sales yet, so we don’t know what Redsnap or the additional sensors will cost. However, we’re hoping to keep a ‘Redsnap plus one sensor’ kit under $100, so that’s what we’re working toward. Hope that helps a little!

    Creator Triggertrap on November 11, 2013
    @Jim Campbell:
    We call the triggering modes ‘any’ and ‘all’ – and yes, they make it possible to choose the behaviour of the sensors when more than one sensor is attached.

    Minning Xiang on November 11, 2013
    @Jim You may fund the answer in “Advanced triggering modes” section on the project home page.

    Jim Campbell on November 11, 2013
    Congratulations on reaching the £200,000 mark! So, an extra sensor for Red Kit backers?
    Given the description in the last update… ” Imagine the possibilities: grab an extra laser sensor and cross the beams to catch tiny insects in flight; or add a second PIR motion sensor to cover a camera trap with two possible entrances!”… I would imagine that there is the ability to switch between a logical AND and a logical OR for triggering from two sensors. Is that correct? I couldn’t find anything about that anywhere.

    Mosley Hardy on November 11, 2013
    It’s been 3 weeks since this was last asked – any rough ideas about the price of additional sensors?

    Isaiah Tanenbaum on November 11, 2013
    Hi there! My apologies if these questions have already been answered but I’m a new backer.
    Can you clarify what sorts of flash connections you’ll use? I generally shoot with Paul Buff “Alienbee” strobes rather than speedlites.
    Here’s a pic of the back:
    http://www.paulcbuff.com/popups/ab/ab_yellow_back_0710.php
    As you can see they take a 3.5mm (1/8th inch) mono input, which of course can be fitted with an adapter to take smaller sizes, or the RJ11 phone jack.
    Now, I can certainly wire the strobes directly from my camera. But if I wanted to get super creative I’d rather be able to wire them to the Triggertrap sensors instead. Will I be able to do that?
    Congrats on the crazy funding guys. Can’t wait til May!

    Daniel Sabourin on November 11, 2013
    Very cool product I’m happy to be a backer.
    But worst stretch goals ever. And I have to agree with Craig and Minning!
    Just make sure you deliver on the promises.

    Minning Xiang on November 11, 2013
    Anyway, it’s better than nothing.

    Minning Xiang on November 11, 2013
    @Creator So.. this new stretch goal is just a correction to your mistake? I’m a backer of Red Kit from the very start. Before you explained why we did that I think the other backers were upset but now I think everyone is upset.

    Craig Staples on November 11, 2013
    Well that was one of the worst thought out excuses I have ever heard.

    Creator Triggertrap on November 11, 2013
    Shreds: Bloody exciting, isn’t it?! 400%, we’re super flattered.
    Justin: Additional battery is easy; use AA batteries, or an USB battery pack (something like http:/www.amazon.com/dp/B009USAJCC for example) will do the trick! The laser trigger doesn’t have much of a delay (70 microseconds or so is very fast indeed), but we’ll keep you up to date as son as we can :)
    Stephen: The interconnect cables will be standard 2.5mm female to male cables.
    Everyone else: We’re sorry you’re upset about the most recent backer update and our stretch goal. We should have explained why we did that – basically, our economy of scale completely changed because we had a lot more people backing our Red kit than we expected: When we first did the calculations, the Red deal was a *really* good deal, but we hadn’t expected that quite this many people would back us at the very top level (just like we didn’t expect to be backed 400%!! Thank you everybody!). As a result, we managed to get an economy of scale that was way beyond what we calculated for, which, in turn, meant that the tripods and interconnect cables were a lot cheaper than we planned for… The upshot is that it means that on our spreadsheets, the Red kit wasn’t as good of a deal as we wanted it to be, hence adding the stretch goal.
    Team Triggertrap / Haje

    Shreds on November 11, 2013
    Yay!! £200000 exceeded and still 5 days to go……. :)

    Justin Tennant on November 10, 2013
    Still waiting for spec updates, any news on the additional battery, or work on speeding up the laser trigger delay would be great! Best of luck.

    Pascal Kreil on November 9, 2013
    Keep calm. You’ll get what you pledged for. I’m a platinum backer and as long as they start shipping in May everything is fine – I don’t care about additional stuff. Maybe we’re getting something when 500% are reached. So go and spread the word to make it happen.

    Minning Xiang on November 9, 2013
    less than 5000 pounds to go

    Michael Luis Esteves on November 9, 2013
    How far can the mirror be away from the laser sensor and still operate correctly?

    Stephen Hersee on November 9, 2013
    How about something g for those of us who didn’t get the red kit?
    Maybe throw in a free interconnect cable so we can use the sensors away from the Redsnap.
    Talking of the interconnect cable, can it be extended using a 3.5 mm audio cable like the current flash, camera and mobile cables?

    Craig Staples on November 9, 2013
    Your kidding about only the red level getting the bonus I hope?
    If this is the case I might pull my backing All because I didn’t need 4 tiny tripods.

    Bo Bickley on November 9, 2013
    I’m excited about the new goal but that’s going to sting for those that can’t get to the Red Kit level. I hope there isn’t any fallout or bailout.

    Ian McCamley on November 9, 2013
    I’m a bit concerned about setting up the mirror for the laser sensor, especially as the distance to the mirror increases. If I had a second laser sensor to act as a receiver could it momentarily turn off the laser from the 1st sensor when the laser is broken?
    I love the idea of the stretch goal but I do think the early birds (not me unfortunately) should be offered a more attractive upgrade path.

    Simon Tooke on November 9, 2013
    How about an empty trigger case so those who want to homebrew a relay or other sensor can make it look great? sure, they may need to run a small cable to the controller, but it’d still be neater than a raw board sitting out.
    @Daniel: I do!

    Johan Gude on November 9, 2013
    @Daniel: I do!

    Daniel Sabourin on November 9, 2013
    Dear Triggertrap team, I think many if not all Platinum backers would appreciate the extra sensor.
    Any other backers agree ?

    Valentin on November 9, 2013
    Will I be able to interface the Redsnap with a computer over the USB socket, or somehow script it? (lua is pretty simple, I don’t know how powerful your hardware is) I’d love to be able to get a signal when a picture’s taken, so I could change settings. A possible application would be for drop photography, where you have a drop fall through the sensor at some interval, and after every drop you increase the trigger delay by a millisecond or so.
    Failing that, I’ll probably be able to hack in a ‘drop photography mode’ by myself. But it would be neat, anyway :P

    Stephen Hersee on November 9, 2013
    I read the update, got excited about getting another sensor to add to my high speed kit, then realised it was only for people who backed the Red kit.
    As much as i’d love the Red, its way out of my price range.

    Creator Triggertrap on November 9, 2013
    Christopher Padfield — The stretch goal makes the £190 goal (the Red Kit) more attractive; it only applies to that backer level.
    Brian Walton — We don’t have that planned yet, but watch this space!
    Minnng Xiang — We are still trying to resolve this issue, which appears to happen only on some mobile devices. Try listening to the video with headphones, or check it out on a computer, and the voices come through clearly!
    Wang Yee Khai — We’ll ask you for which connection cable you need when the campaign finishes!

    Christopher Padfield on November 9, 2013
    Just received an email about the new stretch goal – but it talked about me being a backer of the Red Kit; I backed the Platinum Kit. I imagine this could confuse.

    Brian Walton on November 8, 2013
    Will it have a dry set of contacts (Normally Open and/or Normally Closed) for triggering another device such as a solenoid for water drop or something like that?
    Thanks.

    Minning Xiang on November 7, 2013
    I meant the introduction videos on kickstarter.

    Minning Xiang on November 7, 2013
    What’s wrong with your videos? Seems no voice, just music.

    Wang Yee Khai on November 7, 2013
    Hi, i have selected the Lighting Kit, but i may have missed the ” Connection Cable” option for my nikon camera. Not sure the whether the kit come together with all the cables for different camera model though.
    Please let me know how to change the selction or add remark
    Thanks

    Minning Xiang on November 6, 2013
    Can’t wait for the great thing. Keep on!

    M.Pols on November 6, 2013
    Thanks, for me these functions where not clear from the front page, but happy to have them :)

    Creator Triggertrap on November 4, 2013
    M.Pols, Minning Xiang: yes, these features or variants of them are all planned.
    John: perhaps we should’ve said “as waterproof as a typical camera”! Anyhow, we’re talking some more with our industrial designers to see what sort of weatherproofing might be feasible. We’ll report back.

    Minning Xiang on November 4, 2013
    @M.Pols I think those should be very basic functions.

    M.Pols on November 1, 2013
    It might be already in the comments,
    But is possible to stretch the functionalities with options like:
    -Delayed shot. So trigger + setting of …. (micro)seconds = Photo
    -Multiple shot. So trigger, then 3 photos in burst mode? or 3second burst mode.
    I am not sure those are possible, but I see some use in that.

    Hendrik on October 30, 2013
    > The kit is probably as waterproof as a camera
    Careful what you claim :). I use a fully weather sealed DSLR system which has quite happily survived use in torrential downpours. If you can investigate the options of weather proofing that would definitely be of interest. Doesn’t need to be genuinely waterproof, just rubber bungs on unused sockets, rubber gasket between the two halves of a plastic case, etc. It looks like the sensor to sensor twist connector has a bright red rubber o-ring on it already.
    Any comments on my questions about the inclusion of a Triggertrap Mobile? Is it required? If I buy one now can I get a discount on the platinum/red bundle rather than end up with two?
    Thanks.

    Creator Triggertrap on October 30, 2013
    1000 backers and 300% funded! Thank you one and all!
    Daniel Sabourin, a party sounds like a great idea
    John Harrison, the mini tripods we would be supplying are rather smaller and more compact than gorillapod tripods, so it depends on how you think you will use them. We’ve found the ones mentioned in the Red kit to be surprisingly sturdy and practical, especially for the laser and its mirror. Good feedback on the stretch goals too. The kit is probably as waterproof as a camera, so you would protect them the same on an outdoor shoot. It can probably survive a light splashing. As for the solenoid, it wouldn’t be inside a sensor but an addition to your kit to use with a sensor such as laser.
    Minning Xiang, you are most likely right in thinking that it would be difficult for us to promise a faster delivery time. More funding means higher demand so this does kind of level out. Stay tuned, we’ll have more updates on further stretch goals soon!

    Minning Xiang on October 29, 2013
    I think it’s impossible to ship earlier. Just hope no delay due to the high demands.

    Richard J R Fletcher on October 29, 2013
    maybe a stretch goal for reaching £200k is the possibility of getting it made and shipped earlier than May 2014 ?

    Minning Xiang on October 29, 2013
    seems we’ll have lanyards with redsnaps :)
    is there any stretch goals for 400%? say…100 pounds cash back ^.^

    Daniel Sabourin on October 29, 2013
    John H, The solenoid thing in my case was to be able to do water drop photography and that’s probably what the others were suggesting as well.
    I would prefer a case as well, but probably a lot more £ than a lanyard.
    And your idea of being able to trigger additional items sounds intriguing.

    Hendrik on October 26, 2013
    Approaching 300%, impressive! A few questions…
    For the red kit: are the extra tripods at all worth the extra cash? E.g. gorilla pod things rather than the cheap, basic tripods in the example photos?
    Both red and platinum come with a mobile dongle. That isn’t actually needed to use Redsnap itself is it? And if I were to buy one now to get playing early, is there any way to drop it from the reward bundle and get a discount? I’m guessing that having two is no advantage over one.
    For stretchy goals, I would rather see the bag/pouch that people have mentioned than a lanyard.
    Or even better, weather sealing. Given that you have a ‘wildlife kit’, you must be expecting the sensors to be set up and left outside. In this country, that means they are going to get rained on sooner or later. The what-is-where diagram mentions ‘water resistant control buttons’ but says nothing about the case itself or the myriad connectors. Or did I miss a subtle mention somewhere of the whole set being water proof to 100m?
    Not sure I get the solenoid request. Having a solenoid in a sensor box would not be all that much use. What kind/size of solenoid would you use anyway? I could see an extra output lines extension box being extremely useful though. As in, the ability to independently trigger much more than three channels of ‘stuff’. Say ten lines? For preference, each with individual arbitrary on/off waveforms. Maybe even with solid state relays built in (mechanical ones would not live up to your ‘it’s fast, very fast’ claims). These could then be wired in to solenoids, motors, valves, lights, bigger relays, etc as desired.
    Thanks.

    Daniel Sabourin on October 26, 2013
    Woo Hoo 1000 backers

    Antonio Luis Coelho on October 25, 2013
    … And when you’ll get 1000 supporters/backers, where do you make the party?
    Just to know… Tell us, and we showed up there ;)

    Luc Menard on October 22, 2013
    …And another backer for you ! registered just for this. I wanted to wait for the final product, but it sounded too awesome to be patient :) really hope for a solenoid trigger ; as I tend to be
    extra lazy, a kit with a solenoid included sounds about right…
    And would really love a simple case for a stretch goal. Doesn’t have to be ultra fancy ; considering the size and shape, a simple pouch like those ones I have for my flashes, or a neoprene one… would be uber cool.
    Just one quick question, I’m unsure about the batteries ; do I need batteries in the sensor too ?

    Creator Triggertrap on October 21, 2013
    Oh dear. Please forgive us for the below comment; Haje didn’t realise he was logged in as himself. He’s been punished by having to pay the next 3 rounds in the pub.

    Haje Jan Kamps on October 21, 2013
    Peter — By the time we start shipping Redsnap, we will definitely create a series of instruction videos to help you understand all the triggering modes etc! As for the triggering question, I’m not completely sure I understand your question. Perhaps you could e-mail us on hello@triggertrap.com and we’ll be able to help you individually?
    Jonathan – Yes we are planning configurable delays in the triggering
    David T – We did have an idea of doing a solenoid kit — could you suggest what you’d like here, please: http://tri.gg/redsnap-forum
    David F – We already have a backlit LCD display lined up, so you’re in luck :-)
    Kokobin – A leather case may be a bit far to stretch… but we do hear you loud and clear about the idea of a case. Could you suggest it here, please, so we can keep track of it: http://tri.gg/redsnap-forum
    Michael – Cable splitters is an interesting idea, but we can’t comment about this quite yet; we simply don’t know whether it’ll be a viable option, given the hardware and software we are working on. However, the Redsnap does already have three connectors, and we do have some ideas in the pipeline for how we can add additional cameras later on. GoPro isn’t yet supported, however — but that may change, stay tuned!
    Ford Crews – Cool idea, please post your idea to http://tri.gg/redsnap-forum so we can keep track of it.
    Keep all your great ideas coming everybody, we love it!!

    Peter Wiegersma on October 20, 2013
    Is it possible to have some instruction video’s for each trigger? (Sound, IR, Laser, light). So the workflow is clear and we can see what methode is the best for optimal use of those sensors.

    Peter Wiegersma on October 20, 2013
    hmm i think only in bulb mode, right?

    Peter Wiegersma on October 20, 2013
    your video with sound trap and triggering the flashes. https://www.youtube.com/watch…

    Peter Wiegersma on October 20, 2013
    I don’t like to do this with my hand, as seen on a video of yours. waiting for the sound of the camera and then push to button on good luck.

    Peter Wiegersma on October 20, 2013
    The camera reacts too slow to tak a picture when something hits the laser for example. How do you setup your camera? I got a canon 550d.

    Jonathan Delgado on October 20, 2013
    As far as the trigger timing, would the user be able to delay the timing of the sound,lighting, movement timing so every shot can be guaranteed a different shot, let say of course that all hitting of object were to be hit on the exact spot on the same angle, but what I’m getting too is if can delay the trigger by millisecond to may get a better shot at the hammer goes through the object rather then right as it makes contact with the object. thank you.

    David Taylor on October 20, 2013
    Has anyone seen this project ? http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1928720396/high-speed-water-drop-photography-kit Be interested to know if a water release system along the same lines is something that could be developed at a later date ?

    David on October 20, 2013
    I’d like to see a backlit LCD (if it isn’t already) rather than lanyards. a nylon or cordura case of some sort would be great but I’d rather see extra funding go back into design to make a better product (if you guys can make great products better that is :) )

    kokobin on October 20, 2013
    On the matter of stretch goals, and as a backer at the Redsnap Red kit tier, it was immediately obvious to me that a storage case for travel and practical field use is of paramount importance. A padded leather carrying case to protect and transport the full kit would be fantastic and justifiable.

    Michael Luis Esteves on October 20, 2013
    I’d like to see a cable splitter. If I have multiple camera’s I can use the mobile app integration but then I need multiple phones. The other option if possible would be to have a splitter where there’s one input from the trigger and then a number of outputs that I can plug multiple cameras into.
    Is there support for the gopro?

    Ford Crews on October 19, 2013
    Cool, how about a half push/full push, so you can wake the camera up, before you take a photo on time lapse? And how about an usb api where we can control it it, through a computer/tablet/phone. I’d love to be able to like only take photos from x:yz am – a:bc pm, if there has been no motion in the last j seconds.

    Creator Triggertrap on October 19, 2013
    Andrew: we’ve not finalised the prices yet.
    Ford Crews: the functions are fully settled yet, but the current laser module can be switched between trigger on break and trigger on make. Similarly the light sensor has and adjustable threshold and can be switched between high and low mode.

    Ford Crews on October 19, 2013
    You say the sensors can be anded and ored, can they be not, ie not motion, or when the beam is not broken, and how about a clock/timer. I’d think a good use would be to take a photo ever x period of time, if it’s light and if there is no motion so you could get time lapse images of building projects without people in them, where it was like ghosts were doing the construction. And the not beam could be used to catch someone in the act of taking something.

    Andrew Nakhla on October 18, 2013
    You said at “check out” we would be given the option to buy additional sensors or accessories. I was just curious to what the additional sensors and flash adapter might cost. Thanks!

    Creator Triggertrap on October 17, 2013
    Hi Jessica: yes, you can select the cable at the same time as giving us your address. All of the accessories will also be available to buy, so if you just want extra interconnects it may not be worth it. The physical snap connection is proprietary, but the cables are simple 2.5mm audio jacks.
    – Matt, logged-in as Triggertrap this time.

    Jessica Lynn Qualls on October 17, 2013
    Matt: Will we be able to select the needed camera cable ? for example i have a canon XSI and a 5D. They have different connectors. Which will come with the package standard or will it be a selectable option?
    I am trying to identify which package is best for me, currently i am between the Redsnap Platinum Kit and the Redsnap Red Kit. I dont need the tripods as i have several small ones already. The Interconnect cable x4 would be the only difference for the 40 difference and i am trying to determine if 10 a cable is worth it or if this is something i can obtain locally when needed.
    is it specific to your devices or are they standard jacks on both ends.

    Matt Kane on October 17, 2013
    Jessica: the cables that connect the different sensors are 2.5mm stereo audio connectors. The camera cables are the same as the ones we currently sell with Triggertrap Mobile. See triggertrap.com for more info.

    Matt Kane on October 17, 2013
    Jessica: the cables that connect the different

    Dez on October 17, 2013
    @Matt Kane : Thanks for the information :)

    Jessica Lynn Qualls on October 17, 2013
    Hi there. I am hoping to find out about the interconnect Cable and what adaptability this has for US products. Could you elaborate some for us ?

    Kor Shu Yen on October 17, 2013
    Stretch goals? Please?

    Matt Kane on October 17, 2013
    Gustav: we’ll have this as an option at the end of the project.

    Gustav Lindqvist on October 17, 2013
    Will it be possible to add an amount to get an additional cable for those of us who have two cameras of different brands =)

    Matt Kane on October 17, 2013
    Dez: Yes, there’s a configurable delay. Currently it’s in units of around 10 microseconds.
    Asif: Thanks. Come back to Twitter.
    Rene: the current plan is to let you do that after the project is complete, when you give us your details. You can add extra cables, sensors etc. Not totally confirmed yet.
    Chua Shih Yang: Yes, we’ll be providing full details of the protocol, and the base block code will be open source so you can look at the implementation.

    Chua Shih Yang on October 17, 2013
    I like the idea of being able to add other sensors/actuators to the base unit. Will you be providing information of what the I/O specs would be?

    Rene S Jensen on October 16, 2013
    Hi
    Is it possible to add £ XX to your pledge, to get an extra laser sensor?

    AK (deleted) on October 16, 2013
    SharQ and ascorbic as I live and breathe! Saw this in the Discover section, no idea what it is, no idea, I don’t have a camera, is it something to do with cameras, good luck with your project!

    Dez on October 16, 2013
    Hello !
    A question regarding the behaviour of the trigger ; it is possible to add some delay ?
    For exemple, if I need to take the picture X ms after the laser has been broke, it is possible ?

    Creator Triggertrap on October 16, 2013
    Sam – Great questions! Our sensors are all working prototypes, and so we’re still working on the exact tech specs for the final versions.
    Bo – We did do it within 15 hours! Absolutely incredible, we’re so profoundly grateful to you all. We had a discussion about stretch goals early on, but decided we would see how well the campaign is going before we come up with anything specific. Stay tuned for a separate backer update re: stretch goals!
    We haven’t quite figured out how the mirror is going to work – at the moment, we just glued a small inspection mirror to a tripod, but obviously that’s a bit hacky! We’re talking to the designers and some of our manufacturing partners to come up with a good solution… But you’re right, it would be best if it attached to the Laser block somehow!

    Sam Lam on October 16, 2013
    Can you please comment on the tech specs of the different sensors. Eg. What distance can the laser go? What sound spectrum can the sound sensor detect? How far away can the motion sensor detect movement? Etc…
    Great product!!!

    Bo Bickley on October 16, 2013
    WOW AMAZING! Hitting the goal in the first day – (soooo close!) Come on peeps – these guys are amazing!!
    I would second some type of case as a stretch goal. Even a soft case with some protective foam would be cool. Your logo on the outside would be some nice advertising.
    Question for you. Does the mirror by chance come in a equally cool housing like the sensors? It would be nice to be able to protect it by having it close back into it’s own case.
    I’ve thought about what type of additional sensor you could possibly want beyond what you already have covered. Maybe a cross-beam add-on for the laser sensor. The only other thing that comes to mind is an accelerometer/gyro. I don’t want to have to use my iPhone to do it although it would work. Not quite sure how useful it would be but who knows what us oddball creatives will come up with.
    I bought the ‘Red Kit’ because you said “Hint: Get the Platinum or Red kits :-)” If I had the money I’d be a Queue Jumper!

    David Chuba on October 16, 2013
    It would be helpful if the sensors were clearly labeled for easy identification in a dark studio environment.
    You need to set higher goals! Funded in just over 1 day!

    Peter Wiegersma on October 16, 2013
    Possible stretch goal ideas.
    – case for all this stuff.
    – Triggertrap Flash Adapter
    – Another sensor (maybe a vote for the best idea among the backers and the creators)
    Just to make this project more active, is good for promotion etc. More people gets aware of this project after this great start. More people is more ideas is more possibilities.

    Peter Wiegersma on October 16, 2013
    Almost funded. Party Time! Are there any stretch goals in the pipeline?

    Peter Wiegersma on October 16, 2013
    whow almost funded on their first day. It’s just a trigger away :)

    Robert Mulligan on October 16, 2013
    You should go waaaay over your pledge goal…… great new product ….love the old one so can’t wait to get the new one ….. looks very cool.

    Creator Triggertrap on October 16, 2013
    Crikey, we had no idea that the Early Bird ones would be gone so quickly… We’re really sorry guys — but the non-early-bird ones are still a bargain – get ’em while they’re hot!

    Bo Bickley on October 16, 2013
    Wow in under an hour all the early birds are GONE!!
    Should have listened to my alarm clock and got up on time today – bummer!
    +1 – Can’t wait Whoo Hoo!

    David on October 16, 2013
    Looks like you’re well on your way to getting funded :)
    Great piece of gear and an even better video to go with it.
    Can’t wait :)

    • This reply was modified 3 years, 4 months ago by  andreas d.. Reason: added spoiler bbcode
    #100

    andreas d.
    Keymaster

    Hi!

    I’ve packed the text in a spoiler bbcode just to be able to collapse it (otherwise nobody would know where to scroll to the next posting).

    A few days ago I created lots and lots of PDFs (print to pdf) from various websites – including all triggertrap related kickstarter sites (all updates incl. comments, backers list, faqs, etc.). I’ll upload the files in the backers only forum.

    #133

    Delewin
    Participant

    Hi Andreas,

    Please “roll up this latest text from the Triggertrap comments page.

    Thank you
    David

    Simon Ho about 1 hour ago
    I don’t accept any of your refund option

    Creator Triggertrap about 1 hour ago
    @Tan Meng Keat
    “The TOS of Kickstarter back then clearly state if you fail to produce the reward you would have to fully refund the backers amount. You have failed, so full refund!!”
    We have addressed this here: http://tri.gg/ks-refund-tos
    Team Triggertrap

    Tan Meng Keat about 1 hour ago
    THIS IS ABSURD!!
    You don’t allow the people to select full refund and force people to accept the 50% store credit or 20% cash refund! I have select neither of the choice. Now you going to put me into black hole where you not doing anything.
    The TOS of Kickstarter back then clearly state if you fail to produce the reward you would have to fully refund the backers amount. You have failed, so full refund!!
    Backers which feel cheated please go to this site:
    http://www.reddit.com/r/backertrap/

    Creator Triggertrap about 2 hours ago
    OPEN SOURCE
    As promised, we’ve now released the Ada source code as open source – see http://tri.gg/adasource .
    The hardware, schematics, Bill of Materials and plastics are now available in the same place, all checked into Github. Please see http://tri.gg/adasource for the full set of files.
    Thank you,
    Team Triggertrap

    Creator Triggertrap about 2 hours ago
    @Andreas
    “Do you have any comments on the status of the source code? how close to a finished product will we get if we follow all the instructions you give us (software&hardware)?”
    This is the software and hardware we are ready to go to manufacture with, so it’s the finished product. The only things that might have changed from here on, is if we run into any supply issues, but most of the components are commodity components, and they would have been relatively straight-forward like-for-like replacements
    Team Triggertrap / Haje

    Creator Triggertrap about 2 hours ago
    @VHF / @Tan Meng Keat / @Andy
    “I expect a full refund (…) to comply with the ToS in force at the time” / ” demand a full refund of the amount I back for the project as per stated in the TOS” / “(…) a full refund under the original Kickstarter ToS in effect at the time of backing”
    We are afraid you are misreading the Terms of Service. It does not refer to a full refund. Please refer to http://tri.gg/ks-refund-tos
    Team Triggertrap

    Creator Triggertrap about 2 hours ago
    @Leslie L Eaton
    “As someone who has developed and produced several successful complex, sensor-triggered circuit kits, I expect, at minimum, that ALL the schematics be released IMMEDIATELY. From those, I can review the circuit and create my own Gerber files, then produce the boards and kits myself.”
    We’re really sorry about the delay, and we promise we’ll get them out there as soon as we can, and we’re doing our best to get it out there by the end of the week.
    Team Triggertrap

    Creator Triggertrap about 2 hours ago
    @Leslie L Eaton
    “(…) Repay each and every backer”
    We understand that you are frustrated, but unfortunately we’re not able to do that. More here: http://tri.gg/faq-fullrefund
    Team Triggertrap

    Creator Triggertrap about 2 hours ago
    @Leslie L Eaton
    “I suspect [haje] is posturing to release the unit for sale after the furor dies down”
    This is addressed here: https://triggertrap.reamaze.com/kb/triggertrap-redsnap/faq-are-you-still-bringing-triggertrap-ada-to-market
    Team Triggertrap

    Creator Triggertrap about 2 hours ago
    @Leslie L Eaton
    “Since he is only releasing useless pieces of source code and has failed to release the schematics”
    The schematics are on their way – the reason for the delay is that we need to ensure that we have the final versions of the schematics and boards etc. We have gerbers, for example, but not the editable files, and we’d rather release everything at once. for this part, we’re aiming for the end of the month.
    As for the code being ‘useless’ – I’d love some more specific feedback. Here is OK, of course, but I’ve also created a specific thread on our forum, here: http://forum.triggertrap.com/discussion/834/triggertrap-source-released-any-comments .
    Team Triggertrap

    Creator Triggertrap about 2 hours ago
    @Frode Roxrud Gill
    “I am kind of surprised at how little it has evolved since the code review in October 2014.”
    When we asked you, and a few of our other Kickstarter backers, and a few external reviewers, to take a look, it started a process where we made the argument to the development house that the quality wasn’t good enough. That went in circles for a while as we consulted our legal advisors to see what our position was.
    “Also, your README.md https://github.com/TriggerTrap/ada/blob/master/README.md seems to be based on the version we reviewed in October”
    Correct. The agency prepared the Readme file, whilst another contributor tried to tidy up the power saving code. I do believe most of the changes that were made wwere in the Timing and the Timelapse modes, but we’ll need to check that for you.
    I’m trying to collate some information about the code here: http://forum.triggertrap.com/discussion/834/triggertrap-source-released-any-comments
    Team Triggertrap

    Rudy Coevert about 5 hours ago
    @ leslie L Eaton we also look at a diy version based on the info triggertrap is providing http://forum.triggertrap.com/discussion/820/triggertrap-ada-kit-version#latest
    with your help of circuit kits you could help us to get still a good camera trigger.

    Zachary Levey about 6 hours ago
    Having been a TTv1 backer, and then having this happen, I’m disappointed in the TT team. I’m definitely interested in pursuing this further, and once all of my backed projects have closed out, will be shutting down my Kickstarter account. Just because they don’t want it affecting their company, doesn’t mean it shouldn’t. I’m no longer employed from when this started, and could definitely use the full refund.

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